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You got my attention........

Are you trying to create a very saturated, contrasty look to your images when you usually edit? What kind of look are you going for?
I like a lot of contrast and color. Maybe I was over doing it but yea I like that. HOWEVER, I do have another side to my style, I also like very vintagey soft hazy looks with a lot of light too. :)
 
I think there is room for more than what you've described as a true, pure, or successful photographer, ie, not a fauxtographer. Any photographer's sense of style or trademark way of photographing and editing is acceptable and "right" if it meets the goals of their clients or customers.

il_570xN.191382661.jpg


This photograph is by Irene Suchocki from Montreal, who is arguably very successful. She sells on the handmade site, Etsy: Dreamy photographs of Paris Venice NYC by EyePoetryPhotography In fact, she's THE highest selling photographer on that site. She averages about 8 to 10 sales per day with her average item price being somewhere around $30.00. Etsy is an online venue and shops are open 365 days a year so by estimation she makes somewhere between AT LEAST $88,000 and $110,000 per anum on this venue alone. These photos have nothing to do with most of the "rules" or "advice" that are commonly given out on this forum but she appeals to a wide audience and is selling.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with any photographer having a solid foundation in theory of composition, and lighting, etc. etc... but there is still so much room for creative expression that I think can get stifled sometimes around here. Irene isn't someone I'd put on my wall, but she does amazingly well. If she posted for a C&C here, I wonder if she wouldn't be torn apart in minutes.

In the end, the clients/customers are what decide whether or not a photo "works." If this OP likes super-saturated, over contrasty images and that's her style... then... that's her style. If her clients value her work... they value it.

If it's a question of whether or not the market doesn't understand what "good" photography is, that is a question I'm not sure needs to be answered. If the goal is to have a photography business, it matters little whether or not the buyers are refined enough to care for the rule of thirds.

Having said that, Elizabeth, you should strive to know all you can know. However, in the end, allow for your personal style as well.
 
Here's my photo of the day. Experimenting with shutter speed and exposure. I figured snow was a good way to practice not over exposing my photos.
Snow029.jpg
 
I think there is room for more than what you've described as a true, pure, or successful photographer, ie, not a fauxtographer. Any photographer's sense of style or trademark way of photographing and editing is acceptable and "right" if it meets the goals of their clients or customers.

il_570xN.191382661.jpg


This photograph is by Irene Suchocki from Montreal, who is arguably very successful. She sells on the handmade site, Etsy: Dreamy photographs of Paris Venice NYC by EyePoetryPhotography In fact, she's THE highest selling photographer on that site. She averages about 8 to 10 sales per day with her average item price being somewhere around $30.00. Etsy is an online venue and shops are open 365 days a year so by estimation she makes somewhere between AT LEAST $88,000 and $110,000 per anum on this venue alone. These photos have nothing to do with most of the "rules" or "advice" that are commonly given out on this forum but she appeals to a wide audience and is selling.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with any photographer having a solid foundation in theory of composition, and lighting, etc. etc... but there is still so much room for creative expression that I think can get stifled sometimes around here. Irene isn't someone I'd put on my wall, but she does amazingly well. If she posted for a C&C here, I wonder if she wouldn't be torn apart in minutes.

In the end, the clients/customers are what decide whether or not a photo "works." If this OP likes super-saturated, over contrasty images and that's her style... then... that's her style. If her clients value her work... they value it.

If it's a question of whether or not the market doesn't understand what "good" photography is, that is a question I'm not sure needs to be answered. If the goal is to have a photography business, it matters little whether or not the buyers are refined enough to care for the rule of thirds.

Having said that, Elizabeth, you should strive to know all you can know. However, in the end, allow for your personal style as well.
This image is BEAUTIFUL! I love it!! I would hang this in a heart beat!! Thanks so much for sharing!
 
Some term them fauxtographers. Quit looking at Facebook. ;)

Just what you need. A f/1.2 lens. :thumbdown:

You don't understand, because you have no clue. The typical today photographer is a "natural light, don't/don't know how to pose, don't/don't know how to light, don't have a studio" photographer. That pretty much defines the vast majority of today's one-on-every-street-corner, entry-level, retail photographer that essentially has an illegal business, no technical or artistic skills and little if any desire to ever do the work needed to acquire those skills.

But the churn at the entry level is massive, because only 1 out of every 40,000 of those "natural light only, candid, natural, every day moments, don't/don't know how to pose, don't/don't know how to light, don't have a studio" photographer's actually make any money. Most of those types of retail photography businesses are supported by other income. For a short time anyway.

Today, the 'uses strobed lighting, knows how to pose, has a studio' photographer is in the decided minority, and are about the only photographers around that have a viable, ongoing, actually makes a profit business.

Here is some reality for you. For a full time retail photographer, that has a legal business, to make minimum wage after all the business expenses and personal helth insurance, retirement monies have been paid, needs gross total revenues of between $100,000 and $120,000 a year. That's about $8250 to $10,000 average per month - month, after month, after month.

Well more than 1/2 of a retail photographers time is spent doing business tasks like accounting, developing marketing and promotional plans, networking, drumming up new business, maintaining a web site/blog/social networking, etc.

Wow Keith, this is a fantastic brilliantly written piece of info!

So true, you have all these people banging on about how everyone is a photographer nowadays so there is no way to make money, COMPLETE AND UTTER BS! Most of these people who call themselves photographers are not photographers in any sense of the word!
 
Here's my photo of the day. Experimenting with shutter speed and exposure. I figured snow was a good way to practice not over exposing my photos.

yes.. but it is totally uninteresting. Maybe if the shot was vertical, and you hadn't cut off the tips of her fingers... it might be ok. So where is that TALENT you talking about a few posts ago? It doesn't show here! Although basic compositional skills and knowledge would have at least made it more palatable! :)

And please keep in mind, that most of those who are encouraging you... know less than you do! Do you really think that is best audience to listen too? You can get adulation on Facebook.. but it won't help you get better!
 
punch said:
I think there is room for more than what you've described as a true, pure, or successful photographer, ie, not a fauxtographer. Any photographer's sense of style or trademark way of photographing and editing is acceptable and "right" if it meets the goals of their clients or customers.

This photograph is by Irene Suchocki from Montreal, who is arguably very successful. She sells on the handmade site, Etsy: Dreamy photographs of Paris Venice NYC by EyePoetryPhotography In fact, she's THE highest selling photographer on that site. She averages about 8 to 10 sales per day with her average item price being somewhere around $30.00. Etsy is an online venue and shops are open 365 days a year so by estimation she makes somewhere between AT LEAST $88,000 and $110,000 per anum on this venue alone. These photos have nothing to do with most of the "rules" or "advice" that are commonly given out on this forum but she appeals to a wide audience and is selling.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with any photographer having a solid foundation in theory of composition, and lighting, etc. etc... but there is still so much room for creative expression that I think can get stifled sometimes around here. Irene isn't someone I'd put on my wall, but she does amazingly well. If she posted for a C&C here, I wonder if she wouldn't be torn apart in minutes.

In the end, the clients/customers are what decide whether or not a photo "works." If this OP likes super-saturated, over contrasty images and that's her style... then... that's her style. If her clients value her work... they value it.

If it's a question of whether or not the market doesn't understand what "good" photography is, that is a question I'm not sure needs to be answered. If the goal is to have a photography business, it matters little whether or not the buyers are refined enough to care for the rule of thirds.

Having said that, Elizabeth, you should strive to know all you can know. However, in the end, allow for your personal style as well.

Maybe I should sell my photos there. I can make heart bokeh too.

It's not that people know about the rule of thirds but it is a compositional guideline that has been proven to be more visually pleasing. In the end your right - its what your clients want but knowing how to expose your photos properly (using light) is the key to photography. Not knowing how to do that and just fixing everything in photoshop is for one more work and ways the point. People on this forum don't really critique the creativity aspect because most are beginners and you should know the basics before you get creative.

There are tons of photographers out there that don't pose their subjects and just catch them as they are but they still use composition to make their photos stronger. And they know how to expose their photos so that there isn't much to do except develop them and add whatever creative flair. Personal style is one thing but you still should know the fundamentals of photography (exposure, lighting, etc). Snapshots are not something people usually pay money for. Maybe lifestyle pictures but not snapshots. Snapshots are basically poorly composed, exposed pictures taken in the spur of the moment. If you are having a photo shoot it's not spur of the moment. You should still catch all those amazing candids but they shouldn't be snapshots. You can let the subjects do whatever the want - if you want to chase kids) but you should still have control.
 
You don't have to pose anything or have the perfectly arranged image. I do very little if any real posing, but I do have to create an image that is technically correct with good exposure, proper focus and proper color.
I work very much in what is called an "experiential style." It is not posed even so much as the image we have all been editing.
I set up and sit down and just chat with my subjects. We laugh, joke and get to know each other. All the while I am snapping here or there to get the perfect shots. There's no tilt your head this way or that, place this hand here... I chase kids all over the place capturing what is THEIR essence, not the perfect posed photo. I also do a posed photo for each session, but most of it is photo-journalistic. HOWEVER I am using my flashes placed in the strategic corners to illuminate them properly. I have to produce an image that is in focus and my subjects are the proper color in.
Your clients can capture moments like the one the child is sleeping in that are less than perfect. They are paying you to capture the perfect. Why would they pay you to capture anything that they can do with any average camera and no knowledge what-so-ever? KWIM? You have to be able to do it ALL and then some. And make it look natural.

Take this shot of my son... he was leaning against the wall giving me THE LOOK. If you don't know THE LOOK yet you will, it's the one when mom has the camera out chasing the kid around as they go about their every day life. This image used a flash placed to my right off camera on the ground. He was not posing from me but talking with his dad and scowling at me... That's as posed as it gets here. It's less than perfect because of that, but it's also well focused, well exposed and the color is correct on it.
6650795503_efe33d1d19.jpg


This is an image shoot in studio. I was sitting up on a stool chatting with this kid and he was showing me what he'd learned to play. He's a heavier kid so I am above it *on purpose.* He finished up playing something and looked up at me... I snapped. There was no more posing to it than that. I used 1 flash on this one. I could not have gotten that image without it. The backgound would have been almost white and looked like crap if I had properly exposed his skin here. Their house was dark!
5778315040_3b07323c63.jpg


Now the shots like the sleeping baby of my own kids? Those are far from perfect. However, for a client it has to be perfect.

I can't go to a wedding and say "well, the focus is off, the color is a little funky and the exposure is all wrong, but it's a moment I captured for you!" I have to capture that moment in good focus, good exposure and an artistic style. Probably more than 95% of that is not posed at all. I HATE posed wedding work.

I have two very different wedding photographers I admire greatly. One believes 100% in posing and the other does not believe in posing at all. I follow both of them for my work both in weddings and portraits. Now you think I am insane, right? No... Jim Garner is the photographer who has really headed up the Experiential Style and he is 100% about the experience and capturing it in an unobtrusive way with little to no interference from him. Jerry Ghionis is all about creating the moment. He poses MUCH more than I do but I love how he creates the emotion and art by words and then letting the client do their own thing. If you have any chance to watch or read anything either of them teach-by all means do it! I think you will find that you're a bit like me in that regard where you really love how Jerry emotionally sets the stage with words and then shots the resulting actions and how Garner shoots fully journalistic.

What I am getting at is that you can't even do any of that properly without knowledge and use of light.
I know how you are feeling and thinking about this right now. We have seen so very many people just like you. I'd love to shoot all natural light, but the truth is that it is far harder than using light you can control. I've been at this for 20+ years in one way shape or form and I have a pretty extensive knowledge. I couldn't do it.
 
punch said:
I think there is room for more than what you've described as a true, pure, or successful photographer, ie, not a fauxtographer. Any photographer's sense of style or trademark way of photographing and editing is acceptable and "right" if it meets the goals of their clients or customers.

This photograph is by Irene Suchocki from Montreal, who is arguably very successful. She sells on the handmade site, Etsy: Dreamy photographs of Paris Venice NYC by EyePoetryPhotography In fact, she's THE highest selling photographer on that site. She averages about 8 to 10 sales per day with her average item price being somewhere around $30.00. Etsy is an online venue and shops are open 365 days a year so by estimation she makes somewhere between AT LEAST $88,000 and $110,000 per anum on this venue alone. These photos have nothing to do with most of the "rules" or "advice" that are commonly given out on this forum but she appeals to a wide audience and is selling.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with any photographer having a solid foundation in theory of composition, and lighting, etc. etc... but there is still so much room for creative expression that I think can get stifled sometimes around here. Irene isn't someone I'd put on my wall, but she does amazingly well. If she posted for a C&C here, I wonder if she wouldn't be torn apart in minutes.

In the end, the clients/customers are what decide whether or not a photo "works." If this OP likes super-saturated, over contrasty images and that's her style... then... that's her style. If her clients value her work... they value it.

If it's a question of whether or not the market doesn't understand what "good" photography is, that is a question I'm not sure needs to be answered. If the goal is to have a photography business, it matters little whether or not the buyers are refined enough to care for the rule of thirds.

Having said that, Elizabeth, you should strive to know all you can know. However, in the end, allow for your personal style as well.

Maybe I should sell my photos there. I can make heart bokeh too.

It's not that people know about the rule of thirds but it is a compositional guideline that has been proven to be more visually pleasing. In the end your right - its what your clients want but knowing how to expose your photos properly (using light) is the key to photography. Not knowing how to do that and just fixing everything in photoshop is for one more work and ways the point. People on this forum don't really critique the creativity aspect because most are beginners and you should know the basics before you get creative.

There are tons of photographers out there that don't pose their subjects and just catch them as they are but they still use composition to make their photos stronger. And they know how to expose their photos so that there isn't much to do except develop them and add whatever creative flair. Personal style is one thing but you still should know the fundamentals of photography (exposure, lighting, etc). Snapshots are not something people usually pay money for. Maybe lifestyle pictures but not snapshots. Snapshots are basically poorly composed, exposed pictures taken in the spur of the moment. If you are having a photo shoot it's not spur of the moment. You should still catch all those amazing candids but they shouldn't be snapshots. You can let the subjects do whatever the want - if you want to chase kids) but you should still have control.

I agree with you... and i said as much. i think knowing how to do things properly behind the lens is absolutely going to improve one's photography regardless of how much artistic license they take.

I just think that getting bogged down in whether or not the market demands "good" photography is a waste of time, unfortunately. And yes, you should sell on that site; it's a wonderful opportunity. However, for many, it's a sobering example of how "even i could do that crap!" isn't true... because a) "you" (not you, specifically, but anyone) didn't, and b) "you" likely can't. Etsy is competitive as hell.
 
I think there is room for more than what you've described as a true, pure, or successful photographer, ie, not a fauxtographer. Any photographer's sense of style or trademark way of photographing and editing is acceptable and "right" if it meets the goals of their clients or customers.

il_570xN.191382661.jpg


This photograph is by Irene Suchocki from Montreal, who is arguably very successful. She sells on the handmade site, Etsy: Dreamy photographs of Paris Venice NYC by EyePoetryPhotography In fact, she's THE highest selling photographer on that site. She averages about 8 to 10 sales per day with her average item price being somewhere around $30.00. Etsy is an online venue and shops are open 365 days a year so by estimation she makes somewhere between AT LEAST $88,000 and $110,000 per anum on this venue alone. These photos have nothing to do with most of the "rules" or "advice" that are commonly given out on this forum but she appeals to a wide audience and is selling.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with any photographer having a solid foundation in theory of composition, and lighting, etc. etc... but there is still so much room for creative expression that I think can get stifled sometimes around here. Irene isn't someone I'd put on my wall, but she does amazingly well. If she posted for a C&C here, I wonder if she wouldn't be torn apart in minutes.

In the end, the clients/customers are what decide whether or not a photo "works." If this OP likes super-saturated, over contrasty images and that's her style... then... that's her style. If her clients value her work... they value it.

If it's a question of whether or not the market doesn't understand what "good" photography is, that is a question I'm not sure needs to be answered. If the goal is to have a photography business, it matters little whether or not the buyers are refined enough to care for the rule of thirds.

Having said that, Elizabeth, you should strive to know all you can know. However, in the end, allow for your personal style as well.

That $88 to $110K per year sounds good... Until you find out what her COG and CODB is. At $110K per year she's probably netting about $26,00 IF she is meeting the IDEALS for a home based photographer. Over 90% of home studios are not meeting the ideals by a significant amount.
 
I think there is room for more than what you've described as a true, pure, or successful photographer, ie, not a fauxtographer. Any photographer's sense of style or trademark way of photographing and editing is acceptable and "right" if it meets the goals of their clients or customers.

il_570xN.191382661.jpg


This photograph is by Irene Suchocki from Montreal, who is arguably very successful. She sells on the handmade site, Etsy: Dreamy photographs of Paris Venice NYC by EyePoetryPhotography In fact, she's THE highest selling photographer on that site. She averages about 8 to 10 sales per day with her average item price being somewhere around $30.00. Etsy is an online venue and shops are open 365 days a year so by estimation she makes somewhere between AT LEAST $88,000 and $110,000 per anum on this venue alone. These photos have nothing to do with most of the "rules" or "advice" that are commonly given out on this forum but she appeals to a wide audience and is selling.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with any photographer having a solid foundation in theory of composition, and lighting, etc. etc... but there is still so much room for creative expression that I think can get stifled sometimes around here. Irene isn't someone I'd put on my wall, but she does amazingly well. If she posted for a C&C here, I wonder if she wouldn't be torn apart in minutes.

In the end, the clients/customers are what decide whether or not a photo "works." If this OP likes super-saturated, over contrasty images and that's her style... then... that's her style. If her clients value her work... they value it.

If it's a question of whether or not the market doesn't understand what "good" photography is, that is a question I'm not sure needs to be answered. If the goal is to have a photography business, it matters little whether or not the buyers are refined enough to care for the rule of thirds.

Having said that, Elizabeth, you should strive to know all you can know. However, in the end, allow for your personal style as well.

That $88 to $110K per year sounds good... Until you find out what her COG and CODB is. At $110K per year she's probably netting about $26,00 IF she is meeting the IDEALS for a home based photographer. Over 90% of home studios are not meeting the ideals by a significant amount.

Why do you think that? Her equipment costs are paid for (assuming she's taken the photo, which she has). It costs $0.20 to list an item on Etsy; paypal takes 3.5%... printing costs aren't 75% of the item and shipping is paid for by the customer. How would she lose 75% of her sales?
 
Here's my photo of the day. Experimenting with shutter speed and exposure. I figured snow was a good way to practice not over exposing my photos.

yes.. but it is totally uninteresting. Maybe if the shot was vertical, and you hadn't cut off the tips of her fingers... it might be ok. So where is that TALENT you talking about a few posts ago? It doesn't show here! Although basic compositional skills and knowledge would have at least made it more palatable! :)

And please keep in mind, that most of those who are encouraging you... know less than you do! Do you really think that is best audience to listen too? You can get adulation on Facebook.. but it won't help you get better!
I agree with you, it's just an every day shot but that's what I was doing.... just practicing with settings. My goal was to try and get the exposure better and to see if I could adjust my shutter speeds to catch the snow flakes in air. I understand what you are saying and don't get me wrong love, I'm not blowing off anyone's advice. Actually, I have had more great advice in the last 24 hours than I have ever had! I'm very greatful for that so thank you. It is nice to hear others complimenting on my photos though because everyone wants to hear that they have something great. But I still feel that there is a line between talent and learned. You can only teach so much but talent is what makes the best photographers AWESOME!! I still have tons to learn though so please keep all advice flowing!!! I NEED it!! So on my uninteresting photo, how do you feel about the exposure and the way the snow flakes look in terms of shutter speed?
 
punch said:
Why do you think that? Her equipment costs are paid for (assuming she's taken the photo, which she has). It costs $0.20 to list an item on Etsy; paypal takes 3.5%... printing costs aren't 75% of the item and shipping is paid for by the customer. How would she lose 75% of her sales?

There is more to a business then just that
 
punch said:
Why do you think that? Her equipment costs are paid for (assuming she's taken the photo, which she has). It costs $0.20 to list an item on Etsy; paypal takes 3.5%... printing costs aren't 75% of the item and shipping is paid for by the customer. How would she lose 75% of her sales?

There is more to a business then just that

Sure is. I would know... I know of Irene because I've been selling (not photography) on Etsy (and elsewhere) for 5 years with success. Business is a major undertaking, no one is saying it isn't. However, you don't lose that much of your sales when you sell in an online venue like that. Regardless... it's not more difficult that I'm eluding to here with Etsy.
 
Elizabeth30 said:
I agree with you, it's just an every day shot but that's what I was doing.... just practicing with settings. My goal was to try and get the exposure better and to see if I could adjust my shutter speeds to catch the snow flakes in air. I understand what you are saying and don't get me wrong love, I'm not blowing off anyone's advice. Actually, I have had more great advice in the last 24 hours than I have ever had! I'm very greatful for that so thank you. It is nice to hear others complimenting on my photos though because everyone wants to hear that they have something great. But I still feel that there is a line between talent and learned. You can only teach so much but talent is what makes the best photographers AWESOME!! I still have tons to learn though so please keep all advice flowing!!! I NEED it!! So on my uninteresting photo, how do you feel about the exposure and the way the snow flakes look in terms of shutter speed?

The snow looks good. It still looks underexposed to me though. You could've pushed the exposure a little bit before anything blew out. F/2.2 is still pretty wide open and being close to your subject isn't going to give you much DOF. You should use a smaller aperture - image will be sharper and you probably wouldn't have any focusing errors.
 

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