Zone System - Contemporary Usage

[Ysarex]

Zone System was originally developed for the darkroom but can be adapted for exposure and digital.

No, it was not originally developed for the darkroom. It was originally developed for use with cameras (using B&W film to create B&W prints) in variable contrast available light conditions, as a means to adjust the overall film/print response to better match the lighting contrast of the scene. The foundation science that's it's based upon is the disproportional density response of film to development.

You're sort of talking nonsense here: how is "exposure" different from "digital"?

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish. The entire point of the exposure measurement component of The Zone System is to inform the selection of the matching film development time. Take away step two and why the bleep are you screwing around with step one -- to what end? All you're potentially doing is measuring scene contrast to inform an exposure decision: that's not an adaptation of The Zone System.

I may not use it in the way it was originally developed

That's for sure.

Joe

for but I reference in my metering method. It’s pretty simple and straight forward.

 

[Vtec44]

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish.

Who the hell said it was only for exposure? LOL

All you're potentially doing is measuring scene contrast to inform an exposure decision: that's not an adaptation of The Zone System.

Who to said that it is not? You may not think so, but I do.

 

[Derrel]

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish.

Who the hell said it was only for exposure? LOL

All you're potentially doing is measuring scene contrast to inform an exposure decision: that's not an adaptation of The Zone System.

Who to said that it is not? You may not think so, but I do.

A bologna sandwich on rye bread is gourmet cooking too.

Careful light metering using a color-positive digital camera is not using the Zone System. Electronic images that are not contrast-regulated by the developing solution's strength, its time, its temperature,and the worker's development agitation routine are not made using Zone System methods. Again, careful and consistent light metering and exposure determination is not using the Zone System.

One more time, for clarity, with bold face type for emphasis on a very simple, basic truth: careful and consistent light metering and exposure determination is not using the Zone System. Just exactly as making a bologna sandwich on rye bread is ___NOT____ gourmet cooking....it's not gourmet, annnnnnd it is not even cooking.

I consider _this_ book to be "the source"....I've had my copy since 1985 or so...https://www.amazon.com/New-Zone-Sys...1513647500&sr=8-3&keywords=zone+system+manual

 

[Ysarex]

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish.

Who the hell said it was only for exposure? LOL

You did. LOL

Joe

There are multiple parts of the Zone System, exposure and meting is just a part of it as is development. I'm using the Zone System for exposure, others use it for development in the darkroom. It's not a mystery like some people are trying to make it.

 

[Vtec44]

You did. LOL

Joe

"I use it only for exposure "is totally different than "the Zone System can ONLY be adapted for exposure". English is one of the 3 languages that I speak and I thought I'm bad at it LOL And you're typically pretty darn good at parroting information LOL

 

[Ysarex]

You did. LOL

Joe

"I use it only for exposure "is totally different than "the Zone System can ONLY be adapted for exposure". English is one of the 3 languages that I speak and I thought I'm bad at it LOL And you're typically pretty darn good at parroting information LOL

You are having a language problem in this case. Please note that your substitution of my use of the preposition "to" with the preposition "for" completely changes the meaning of the word "only" in my sentence. I'll assume your weakness with English is responsible and forgive that. Otherwise that preposition switch on your part would be a low down attempt to change what I said. I'll also assume your misunderstanding of The Zone System derives from a similar source.

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish.

Who the hell said it was only for exposure? LOL

All you're potentially doing is measuring scene contrast to inform an exposure decision: that's not an adaptation of The Zone System.

Who to said that it is not? You may not think so, but I do.

A bologna sandwich on rye bread is gourmet cooking too.

Careful light metering using a color-positive digital camera is not using the Zone System. Electronic images that are not contrast-regulated by the developing solution's strength, its time, its temperature,and the worker's development agitation routine are not made using Zone System methods. Again, careful and consistent light metering and exposure determination is not using the Zone System.

One more time, for clarity, with bold face type for emphasis on a very simple, basic truth: careful and consistent light metering and exposure determination is not using the Zone System. Just exactly as making a bologna sandwich on rye bread is ___NOT____ gourmet cooking....it's not gourmet, annnnnnd it is not even cooking.

I consider _this_ book to be "the source"....I've had my copy since 1985 or so...https://www.amazon.com/New-Zone-Sys...1513647500&sr=8-3&keywords=zone+system+manual

Good book.

Joe

 

[Vtec44]

You are having a language problem in this case. Please note that your substitution of my use of the preposition "to" with the preposition "for" completely changes the meaning of the word "only" in my sentence. I'll assume your weakness with English is responsible and forgive that. Otherwise that preposition switch on your part would be a low down attempt to change what I said. I'll also assume your misunderstanding of The Zone System derives from a similar source.

Joe

Nice try!!! LOL

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish.

Let me simplify it further for you LOL . I NEVER SUGGEST that The Zone System can be adapted ONLY to exposure. I TELL people I use it for exposure but other people use it for different things. Yes, you can go ahead and parrot that too.

And to make it even clearer if it hasn't been, no online self proclaim experts can tell me what it is and what it is not, or how to call and not to call something. *I* will call it as I see fit.

Edit: I take it back, technically online self proclaim experts can tell me whatever the want LOL It doesn't mean I give a rat ass

 

[Derrel]

Taking a light meter reading and then over-exposing from what the meter indicates...that is _not_ using "the Zone System". That is basic camera work, and is simply something that has been known about for decades.

The Zone System is well-documented, was based on film, and involved the developing of film, to create a black & white negative.

Taking meter readings and then under- or over-exposing from the readings is, quite simply, NOT using "the Zone System".

If the history and the language of photography is to have any meaning whatsoever, we need to show some respect to the language, and the methods, of the field. Using real, defined, well-understood words in the wrong way does nobody any favors.

Well...back to the world in which a bologna sandwich is gourmet cooking. Right?

 

[Vtec44]

Taking a light meter reading and then over-exposing from what the meter indicates...that is _not_ using "the Zone System". That is basic camera work, and is simply something that has been known about for decades.

Identify what zone the object is in and put that object in that zone to get a precise exposure without having to visually inspect your LCD screen. Yep the method has been known for decades, but you still need to have an understanding of part of the Zone System to use it.

 

[Ysarex]

You are having a language problem in this case. Please note that your substitution of my use of the preposition "to" with the preposition "for" completely changes the meaning of the word "only" in my sentence. I'll assume your weakness with English is responsible and forgive that. Otherwise that preposition switch on your part would be a low down attempt to change what I said. I'll also assume your misunderstanding of The Zone System derives from a similar source.

Joe

Nice try!!! LOL

To suggest that The Zone System can be adapted only to exposure is rather foolish.

Let me simplify it further for you LOL . I NEVER SUGGEST that The Zone System can be adapted ONLY to exposure. I TELL people I use it for exposure but other people use it for different things. Yes, you can go ahead and parrot that too.

You're still having a language problem. When you tell people you use it for exposure but other people use it for different things, you're saying that exposure is the only thing you use it for. You don't use it for other things, just exposure. That's the meaning of the word only in my sentence. You're misunderstanding what I said. Let me say it again more clearly. Trying to Adapt The Zone System for use in exposure determination without applying the processing component of the system that informs exposure choice is rather foolish.

Joe

 

[Derrel]

Taking a light meter reading and then over-exposing from what the meter indicates...that is _not_ using "the Zone System". That is basic camera work, and is simply something that has been known about for decades.

Identify what zone the object is in and put that object in that zone to get a precise exposure without having to visually inspect your LCD screen. Yep the method has been known for decades, but you still have an understanding of part of the Zone System to use it.

Nope. Sorry. I knew about over-exposing to make white things bright wayyyyyyy before I learned how to use the Zone System. I knew about under-exposing to make black cats and coal lumps black, over a decade before I ever read The System Manual.

By the way, I'm having gourmet bologna sandwiches this weekend...gonna make 'em on pumpernickle bread!

 

[Ysarex]

Nice try!!! LOL

And by the way, I'm being patient with your language weakness, you should be too.

Joe

 

[Vtec44]

You're still having a language problem. When you tell people you use it for exposure but other people use it for different things, you're saying that exposure is the only thing you use it for. You don't use it for other things, just exposure. That's the meaning of the word only in my sentence. You're misunderstanding what I said. Let me say it again more clearly. Trying to Adapt The Zone System for use in exposure determination without applying the processing component of the system that informs exposure choice is rather foolish.

Joe

YAWN.

I tell people I use it for exposure, no where that I said exposure is the only thing I use it for. Assumption is the mother of all screw ups LOL

 

[Ysarex]

You're still having a language problem. When you tell people you use it for exposure but other people use it for different things, you're saying that exposure is the only thing you use it for. You don't use it for other things, just exposure. That's the meaning of the word only in my sentence. You're misunderstanding what I said. Let me say it again more clearly. Trying to Adapt The Zone System for use in exposure determination without applying the processing component of the system that informs exposure choice is rather foolish.

Joe

YAWN.

I tell people I use it for exposure, no where that I said exposure is the only thing I use it for. Assumption is the mother of all screw ups LOL

Oh! Then please continue to answer Alan Klein's question and explain. Looking forward to hearing what you do with color film processing.

Joe