FX sensor in D4 vs 810

kdthomas · Oct 31, 2014

OK, so I know that the D4s has less physical resolution (4,928 x 3,280) that the D810 (7,360 x 4,912) ... but they are both full-frame sensors.

(I hope I'm getting this right)

This would seem to indicate that, in the D4s, each element in the sensor itself is "larger" or has more light-gathering capability, or accuracy or ... something?

From what I've heard, the advantage w the D4s is mainly raw speed, and it makes it a good choice for sports photographers.

I guess maybe I'm asking if there is a difference in the image quality or accuracy in the D4s vs the 810 ... or if the question is even valid

I'd appreciate any help in understanding.

D-B-J · Oct 31, 2014

I can't really comment about ISO ability and sensitivity, but the D4s has a much beefier processor/buffer, and when you combine that with the smaller file size it allows you to shoot a million raw files at 11FPS. What do you mean by accuracy? And yeah, there will be a difference in image quality. The D810 has more pixels per given area and thus will produce more detailed images--definitely apparent in fine detail on say clothing or far-away trees.

Jake

astroNikon · Oct 31, 2014

The physical size of each sensor is the same
The pixel density is different. The d8x0 having a higher density than the d4s (d6x0, d750)

The shutter mechanism for the d4s is faster than with the d800, thus allows more fps.
I think some cameras have carbon fiber shutters, etc. a faster mechanism with that.
And then you have a beefer processing and buffer to store more photos for continuous shooting.

So you're asking about a couple different things.

unsure of "accuracy"
"image quality" -- the d800 will have high density vs the d4s which will allow more cropping.

jaomul · Oct 31, 2014

By all accounts the d810 sensor has better dynamic range, better colour depth and better resolution. The d4s sensor has less noise at higher iso. How much of this other than resolution that you would see in a normal print is debatable.

Vince.1551 · Oct 31, 2014

The D4s is an excellent robust all rounder. The D810 by far produces the best image quality in term of pixel density. At about 15mpx the D810 can only shoot 7fps (cropped mode) so in terms of speed of shooting the D4s beats the other Nikon cameras hands-down. Buffer wise I don't think they differ much. The photographer who does a lot of portrait or studio work or need fine details would probably go for the D810 while photographers with lots of outdoor assignments in different situations would highly likely prefer the D4s.

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ruifo · Oct 31, 2014

The "element" you mention is called pixel.

The D4s sensor has 16,163,840 pixels (= 16.16 mpix), and each individual pixel has a pitch of 7.3 µm (49% larger than the D810 pixel).
The D810 sensor has 36,152,320 pixels (= 36.15 mpix), and each individual pixel has a pitch of 4.9 µm (33% smaller than the D4s pixel).

That means that the original image capture by the D4s has much less resolution, information, and more light captured by each individual pixel (hence less noise at 1:1 level). And the original image capture by the D810 has much more resolution, information, and less light captured by each individual pixel.

However, you can easily resize the 36 mpix image produced by the D810 to a smaller 16 mpix image. This will mimic the same resolution, information and light levels of the D4s, while the opposite will be much harder to accomplish (it's 'impossible' to convert the 16 mipx D4s image into a 36 mpix image without distorting it).

This allows the D810 sensor to capture much more detail, and you can be much more flexible with the file for printing, resizing, cropping etc., with better sharpness, dynamic range, color management etc., but you need to post-process the D810 file later. It gives you much more flexibility and versatility. On the other hand, the D4s file allows you to be faster, with minimum post-processing, with lighter files, and better noise, easier to manage right out of the camera.

But the D810 also has the sRAW format too (the small RAW "cooked" file), that mimics the effect of each square segment of four D810 pixels to collect light as they were only one single pixel instead. That produces a "cooked" RAW file with four times less megapixels, with a resolution of 3,680 x 2,456 pixels (9,038,080 pixels = 9.04 mpix). That mimics a sensor where each individual pixel has a pitch of 9.8 µm (100% larger than the D810 original pixel, and 34% larger than the D4s pixel).

That gives the D810 an extra advantage. Although this is just a software cooking process to combine each four pixels into one, it does impact the noise for the better (for the cases when you need a faster post-processing). You'd get a similar result by resizing the file later, in post, but the output would not be RAW/NEF format as the D810 camera offers you. Despite criticism out there, my results with the sRAW are just good. It is nice to have both RAW and sRAW as options, for when needed.

More info on the D810 sRAW feature:

The D4s also offers its own sRAW file too, but producing a sRAW file of only 4 mpix. Because of that, I believe the sRAW file is much more useful for the high resolution D810, than for the low resolution D4s.

So, if you need to shoot fast (photo jounalism, sports, night photos, fast post-processing, etc.), the D4s will be better. If you don't need to go fast, the D810 will offer much more, for much less $$.

kdthomas · Oct 31, 2014

Great! You guys have been very helpful (not just this thread, but in general).

Cheers!!

KmH · Oct 31, 2014

The image sensor not withstanding, the pro grade (have a built-in vertical grip) D4 or D4s has features, functions, and capabilities the prosumer grade (doesn't have a built-in vertical grip) D810 doesn't have.

The D4s, with it's high frame-per-second rate, is configured to be a pro grade action sports camera.
The D800/810 high resolution image sensor is configured for studio type work.
Before the D800/810 Nikon's studio camera was the 24.5 MP D3x.

One D3, D3s, D3x, D4, D4s feature I miss now that I don't have a D3 is the very handy voice memo feature.
It's not just about the image sensor.

runnah · Oct 31, 2014

If I see one more thread where "prograde" and "vertical grip" are mentioned in the same post I am banning everyone.

The d800/810 is a professional camera.

bribrius · Oct 31, 2014

d4 is a much tougher camera though right, meant for hard use? Buy a d4 for basic consumer use it would probably last you for a decade.

runnah · Oct 31, 2014

bribrius said:
d4 is a much tougher camera though right meant for hard use? Buy a d4 for basic consumer use it would probably last you for a decade.

Talking about two different professions. Sure if you're down and dirty getting shots at a football game or out in the dirt getting motocross shots a d4 is a pro camera for you. But if you are in a studio shooting models or shooting landscapes a d800 is a pro camera for that type of work.

It's a conversation that is dumb and is perpetuted by this our dates notion that "pro" cameras have to have certain features like a vertical grip. Moe's is where extra batteries go, before it was where the motordrives went for fast fps back in the film days. Sure back in the film days a camera with a built in motordrive was considered pro, now it's irrelevant.

D-B-J · Oct 31, 2014

bribrius said:
d4 is a much tougher camera though right, meant for hard use? Buy a d4 for basic consumer use it would probably last you for a decade.

They have the same full-magnesium alloy body and weather sealing. I don't see how one is "stronger/tougher" than the other.

ruifo · Oct 31, 2014

According to Nikon's website:

Entry Level models: D3100, D3200, D3300, D5100, D5200, D5300 (link)
Enthusiast models: D7000, D7100, D610, Df, D750 (link)
Professional models: D800, D800E, D810, D3X, D4, D4S (link)

photoguy99 · Oct 31, 2014

One more time, runnah, because apparently you're not paying attention:

'Pro' and 'prosumer' are product categories. They do not reflect the character or profession of the owner despite the unfortunate naming convention.

These are industry standard terms and have been for ages.

The d4 and d810 are radically different cameras. The differences can be summarized approximately by simply naming the categories, or by listing features and characteristics. KmH helpfully did both.

One item he left out is shutter life.

The d3 and d4 lines are like HDTs. The d810 is like a super super nice pickup truck. And as such is the right choice for a whole lot more people, including many professionals.