if 90 percent of people don't like what you shoot or the way you shoot

Torus34 · Mar 1, 2015

Just went back and read the topic line with care. It's a two-parter, it is. Yup, a two-parter.

As far as people's reaction to the final print, that's one thing. That has been discussed over and over again. And will be, for as long as photographic processes exist.

But people's reaction to how it was arrived at -- the 'way' it was shot -- is something else again, no?

I find myself coming down on the side of 'it's none of their business' on the 'how I shot it' question. I want my work to be judged qua work, independent of whether it was taken with a Canon or Nikon, film or digital, PhotoShop(r)-ed or dodged and burned, etc. I'm happy to discuss details with anyone who asks, but not in the context of exposing the information to a judgment call. The methodology and equipment I choose are selected on the basis of the hoped-for final print. Any major change would, in all probability, change the result -- but I already made the decision(s).

bribrius · Mar 1, 2015

Overread said:
pgriz said:

But if you're doing the photography only for yourself, who cares who else likes it?

Click to expand...

As a website where a primary focus is teaching of the craft to others this is a very dangerous comment to make; its also really rather wrong.

You see most of us are doing it because its for us. As a primarily amateur driven site most here are doing it because they love photography not because a client is paying them or their mother asked them to.

Now it's easy when we are intermediate to say "who cares do it for yourself" without realising that its a dangerous bit of advice to give. You see a beginner or those of intermediate but lesser skill, might well produce very sub-standard work. Their potential is hardly tapped into; and yet if we tell them that if they are happy then all's good then we do them a disservice.

Yes in theory we should all find our own inspiration to do better; but on the flipside we should not discourage people from seeking out those who are inspirational sources to them. There has to be a little push - might be from the person might be from those around them; otherwise we (as people) are very happy to do as we do and not challenge nor improve.

So on those grounds I'd say yes - yes it does matter. It matters in so much as if someone tells you you're doing something wrong:
1) That you should be able to perform the corrections they suggest yourself - not just think you can but know you can and to a good level of quality.

2) That we take steps to understand WHY our photos are disliked - WHY there is something wrong with them.

It's all about broadening your horizons and allowing yourself to experiment and develop new tools and skills. AFTER That point; then you are in a position to say "Yeah I know some people won't like it; but I've done it 50ways and this is the 1 way I like." It's not the best, its not the most right, its not even got to be the most popular - its the way you like.

where or when is the after? In all seriousness. I could do this my entire life and not know everything about photography. where is that line? Figure i have read some books, took a course years back, looked through art of previous eras. Taken a chit load of photos. Getting into studio/flash photography now. Still lack on post process but have somewhat a understanding. Dark room skills are limited to non existent (if i set one up i could spend a decade just learning that), watched i don't even know how many videos. Painted before this, if it is worth anything. This seems to be a endeavor where it really just never ends. So where is that after?

Overread · Mar 1, 2015

There is no line. There never was a line - the concept that learning is purely a linear path with a start a middle and an end is a folly.

It's not even a straight pathway.

We learn things - we will put them into practice - learn new things - put new things into practice - forget some of the old things - remember them - relearn them - mix it up.

The process is, in reality, never ending because you will never know nor recall everything. That said most of us reach a point at which we are learning less and using more. Where we have learned up to our saturation point and beyond which we make much smaller gains if any. Indeed we might even go backwards for a time. This saturation point is also not fixed - might be you're more than happy with a level of skill for many years and then suddenly or over time your saturation point rises and you again seek out to learn more.

petrochemist · Mar 1, 2015

One thing to consider is what the other 10% think. If most of them love it, you're doing rather well even if in a niche field. If the 10% are indifferent you're not impressing anyone.

unpopular · Mar 1, 2015

So long as you are in the persuit of truth, you're never doing anything wrong.

bribrius · Mar 1, 2015

pgriz said:
Who likes it matters more than how many like it. But if you're doing the photography only for yourself, who cares who else likes it?

i actually don't. I was speaking more of generality in conversation. As it seems a lot seem to adhere to others standards which i wasn't so sure is a good or bad thing. I adhere to others standards, but only to a very limited extent on certain things. As time goes on i will go even more to the non adherence side. I can see the 500 px and 1x in the sig line dissapearing soon, as well as the accounts. I dumped facebook for the most part a long time ago. Post in just for fun for the most part on here..I still ask a lot of technical questions. Far as my actual work it is pretty much off limits now and hardly ever does anything serious get posted anywhere. What does i don't care if they like it or not. That will become more infrequent that anything gets posted. I actually plan a total withdrawal other than occasional technical questions. And i have started looking at articles and other sources for many of them so i don't have the relations of individual people. I can just read it, look it up, and shut it down or off. It was good to get out there, out in the photography community for a while to see what else i didn't know (quite a bit) and get some sort of understanding of where i am. You can't live in a bubble either. You end up ignorant or your skills and knowledge can suffer.

You have nothing to compare your work too and little to learn from without some directions on where to go. Now i am going back the other direction. Pretty much to recluse other than chit chat or occasional technical. so i guess i really don't care what they think unless it is something in particular i want to know. The biggest leap for me has been 1x actually. But you don't need to be a member to view the work i don't think. So i don't really need to have the account. The similar tutorials you can find other places for free. And after looking through hundreds and hundreds of photos on there, they are looking somewhat similar at this point. Just made me realized i need to get a little more involved in portraiture and post processing. I will probably still be asking a lot of questions about that on here or elsewhere.

fjrabon · Mar 1, 2015

This question essentially belies a deeper confusion the hypothetical photographer has, which is "what am I trying to do with my photography?" If the photographer knows his own personal answer to that question, the question in the OP is a non-sequitur. If you know what you're trying to do, you will have a very clear idea about whose opinion matters about which things.

I think it's folly to give a definitive answer to the OP's question either way, without clearly understanding what the photographer is setting out to achieve. Ignoring opinions you should be taking into account is a recipe for irrelevancy (if your goal is at all tied to relevance), while trying to please everybody is a recipe for having no vision of your own.

If I'm a stock photographer, then there are certain types of opinions that I absolutely need to stick to, same for a professional sports reporter. Even if you're only shooting for yourself, understanding others' points of view can be helpful in achieving your own personal goals.

As far as how to identify whose opinion you should care about, simply ask yourself what you're trying to achieve with your photography, and find somebody who you believe has made more progress on that front than you, and listen to them and what they think about your work.

Didereaux · Mar 1, 2015

bribrius said:
does that mean you are wrong?

Nope! Just means you aren't going to be selling many pictures. :biglaugh:

Didereaux · Mar 1, 2015

bribrius said:
pgriz said:

Who likes it matters more than how many like it. But if you're doing the photography only for yourself, who cares who else likes it?

Click to expand...

i actually don't. I was speaking more of generality in conversation. As it seems a lot seem to adhere to others standards which i wasn't so sure is a good or bad thing. I adhere to others standards, but only to a very limited extent on certain things. As time goes on i will go even more to the non adherence side. I can see the 500 px and 1x in the sig line dissapearing soon, as well as the accounts. I dumped facebook for the most part a long time ago. Post in just for fun for the most part on here..I still ask a lot of technical questions. Far as my actual work it is pretty much off limits now and hardly ever does anything serious get posted anywhere. What does i don't care if they like it or not. That will become more infrequent that anything gets posted. I actually plan a total withdrawal other than occasional technical questions. And i have started looking at articles and other sources for many of them so i don't have the relations of individual people. I can just read it, look it up, and shut it down or off. It was good to get out there, out in the photography community for a while to see what else i didn't know (quite a bit) and get some sort of understanding of where i am. You can't live in a bubble either. You end up ignorant or your skills and knowledge can suffer.

You have nothing to compare your work too and little to learn from without some directions on where to go. Now i am going back the other direction. Pretty much to recluse other than chit chat or occasional technical. so i guess i really don't care what they think unless it is something in particular i want to know. The biggest leap for me has been 1x actually. But you don't need to be a member to view the work i don't think. So i don't really need to have the account. The similar tutorials you can find other places for free. And after looking through hundreds and hundreds of photos on there, they are looking somewhat similar at this point. Just made me realized i need to get a little more involved in portraiture and post processing. I will probably still be asking a lot of questions about that on here or elsewhere.

Only have to ask yourself one question: Who did the past great trail-breaking photographers compare there pictures to? Opinions are fine for technical aspects when learning, that is necessary. But opinions when you have mastered the techniques has little or no value.

Gary A. · Mar 1, 2015

Generally speaking, Yes it does. Do you think 90% of the people don't know crap? Unless you're only doing some insane, extreme, cutting-edge, way-out-of-the-box, photography ... 90% negatory is not acceptable. 90% negatory is acceptable if last week you were at 95% negatory ... and if next month you're at 85% negatory.

Now, let's dismiss that 90% ... what do you think of your photography? Forget your 90% ... forget your 10% ... forget your 100%. Look at the greats in photography. How does your photography compare to them? That is your goal. Look at others on this site, the better photogs that shoots similar genre as yourself ... how do you compare to them?

This is your starting point, comparing your images to the greats and the better ... then work to attain their level of quality. I always shoot for what I deem to be exceptional ... if others agree, then that is even better.

Gary

Bebulamar · Mar 1, 2015

If you want to sell your work than it's really matter as your market has shrunk by 90% but if you do it for yourself you need to see if your works are good or not. Others opinion don't matter.

Dave442 · Mar 1, 2015

I think that if you can actually measure that 90% then your doing fine.
How do you measure, i.e.: Sell one picture for every for every ten people that take a look? Ten of your 100 images were selected by the curator for an exhibition? Those numbers seem reasonable to me. Now if only one of your ten images on FB received a like it was probably because that was the only one with a cat.

407370 · Mar 1, 2015

So 10% of my pictures will only be seen by me. The rest are shared by various methods but I know (as Derrel points out) the ones that people are going to like so I share a few of those just to boost my ego. The experimental stuff I mostly post on here as I will get good constructive feedback.
The best ego boost is a surprise when the TPF faithful like one of my experiments (like my pic of the gold mosque wall) but that is a rarity and more enjoyable because it is rare. The rest of my pics dont get noticed much and I am fine with that.