"Ill have to ask for youre film as well..."

mysteryscribe · May 28, 2007

Quote: I've also had a run-in with a police officer who pulled me over for "dangerous driving" after I got cut off and was forced to slam on the breaks. When he threatened to try and suspend my licence because I was "just another 19 year old idiot on the road" which he clearly couldn't do I spent about 10 minutes shouting at him.

I would have simply written you a ticket for reckless driving and let you explain it to the judge. You probably would have gotten off after your explaination but still wasted a day in court.

reminds me of a sunday morning back when I was a JACK BOOTED THUG. Man runs a stopsign early in the morning. I pulled him over to give him a warning. First thing he says is, "Do you know who the hell I am."

"No sir but if you get me your drivers license and registration while I go back for my ticket booK i will know."

Think about that for a minute.

Like I said been a lot of years with a camera not a badge but I still know better than to fail the attitude test. It's called reality.

The_Traveler · May 28, 2007

I want to add a message here but nothing I could say would be funnier than reading these posts. And I don't want to miss any.

I am a huge gun activist also - mostly because a have a huge gun and I try and keep it active.

mysteryscribe · May 28, 2007

Oh come on travelman.

I plan to call a lawyer next time someone breaks into my house at 2am. I want to be sure I'm not violating his rights, when I blow him into next week with a sawed off shotgun.

I will probably be wrong to have done it, but I'm guessing there is not a judge in the world these days who can raise him from the dead to testify. That will be another tragic case of gee whiz judge I had no idea he had to be doing x for me to do y.

I want a jury trial.

Can you say OJ Simpson.

usayit · May 28, 2007

mysteryscribe said:
Actually you are right, in the case of simple tresspass, but not in criminal. If i could make a prima facia case that you entered with the intent of setting up a burglaryat least possible to use the warehouse as storage for something worse wink wink, which I could only establish with the contents of the camera. I simple state to judge at the time of the court hearing several weeks later, that I observed you with the camera and at the time I saw you, you were pointing it at a surveilence camera. That led me to believe it was more than simple treasspass. I believe at that time the camera becomes an element of the criminal treasspass. Were you photographing secruity on the site. I believed at the time your honor the the accused was photographing the secruity system of the building to plan a burglary.. I needed to process the film and use it in evidence against him. Since the camera was evidence in the crime by the simple fact that a police officer saw the defendant in a place he knew was restricted. The defendant was photographing the security system. So the camera was evidence and was fair game to be used as evidence and the images as well. At least that would be my reasoning for taking the camera into evidence and storing it till the trial. Im not sure your lawyer could get it back before the trial date. Then if I lost it would be sorry I made an honest mistake.

If I didn't want to go that route, I would just take the camera as property in your possesion at the time of arrest. Property to be safeguarded by ME. Until you are booked. You can't go into the slammer holding your nikon or your car keys. Oh that's right your car is In the impound yard anyway. I have to hold the camera till after you are arraigned before the magistrate or judge depending on how it is done in your juristiction. At which time bail will be set pending your court appearance. Then when you make bail you could claim your camera and other possessions. Then you could call have your lawyer drive you back to your car. Fat chance. Or you could call a family member to do it, and explain to them how you got tossed into the slammer to protect your right to keep a $2 roll of film or to keep you memory card from being cleaned.

Cost of lawyer... impound fee for towing the car.... bail bondsman cost... cab fare to the impound.. and a couple of hours in the slammer. All for a few shots of a deserted building.

OF COURSE IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING

You would be surprised in the real world how few people think that kind of inconvenience is worth a roll of film .....

Sorry professor it just don't work that way. In some point the cost of keeping a $2 roll of film or not cleaning a card becomes prohibative. Explaining to your wife why it cost you 200 bucks for the picture of an empty warehouse is going to be hard, especially if she goes to court and finds out how easy it would have been for you to back down anywhere along the line.

Your statement about as is my right will come in and sound like a dodge to keep the illegal image. If you were breaking the law by being there it has to be an image gained illegally therefore an illegal image. I think that is how the law convolutes it.

And that isn't even going into the african version of the bullet in the head for the wiseassed photographer.

I'm sorry but this is the exact reason why I have a Love/Hate relationship with police officers.... I'm in Jersey and many cops come off as bullies from High school that never grew up. You wouldn't believe the border line corruption that occurs around here in regards to the Police.

Some say.. to "Serve thyself and protect no one".

The_Traveler · May 28, 2007

where is this a discussion about photography?

usayit · May 28, 2007

The_Traveler said:
I want to add a message here but nothing I could say would be funnier than reading these posts. And I don't want to miss any.

I am a huge gun activist also - mostly because a have a huge gun and I try and keep it active.

It probably doesn't and has strayed off topic.. but thats normal for threads of any topic or forum... TPF is pretty laid back.

Besides... Mr Traveler your previous post wasn't exactly on topic either.

The_Traveler · May 28, 2007

usayit said:
Besides... Mr Traveler your previous post wasn't exactly on topic either.

Perhaps, I'll post a picture.

mysteryscribe · May 28, 2007

Well I was a cop believe it or not when frank serpico was talking to the knapp commission. It was hard for us down here to pick sides. There really is that brotherhood of the badge thing, and also that I never took a penny and hate the idea of cops who do.

I think it will always be an us vs them mentality, since cops are a sub culture. They are mainly because society sees them that way.

I went to a christmas party back then. Someone asked what I did and I tried to be vague. Said i worked for the city. "You a cop?"
"Who me, na Im a garbage collector."

" Oh hell have a drink then."

So yeah it comes down to a subculture usually. Damn shame, and the name calling doesn't help much. It just solidifies the us vs them mentality.

coastietech · May 28, 2007

mysteryscribe said:
.......I think it will always be an us vs them mentality, since cops are a sub culture. They are mainly because society sees them that way.........

I hate to tell you but most cops make it a point to separate them from the rest of society. For example I got into a conversation with a LEO that kept referring to everyone as civilians. He got all defensive when I asked him "WTF?" and then told him "you are a civilian too!" The only people who aren't civilians are military. Most cops that I have met walk around with this holier than thou attitude. If I give you an attitude and you proceed to use the law unjustly to get back at me you are not only acting unprofessionally but you are now the cause of a potential lawsuit. As for me wearing the badge I don't need to wear it to be able to tell you that the way your post came across is not only unprofessional, but it screams I'm a bully and I like to push people around.

PS- I confused were you a retired cop? Or were you a retired department photographer who is a wanna be retired cop? If it is the latter then I am glad you are no longer a LEO, if the former than what the hell are you babbling about.

The_Traveler · May 28, 2007

I personally believe that MysteryScribe is a Commie agent over here to corrupt our vital bodily fluids.

Gee Whiz, Coastie, dial it back.
Self-righteous anger based on conjecture just becomes silly after a while.

mysteryscribe · May 28, 2007

Let me see, I was a professional photographer first, police photographer, then I was a cop, then I was a professional photographer again. Now you might not like my attitude, for which I truly am sorry, but you might also want to realize that it isnt about cops and civilians how much is the shot worth to you. In the real world vs the world of law schools and college courses just how much is that film really worth to you. That image that you shouldn't be there to take anyway. That is the point of it all.

As to was I badge heavy and a jack booted thug, hell I have no idea. That is for someone else to say. Do I respect cops you bet your *** I do. If it was me in a place I shouldn't be, with a roll of film I had just shot, and a cop said to me give him the film and be on my way, i would be happy to say sure.

If there were other things on there that I wanted I might ask for that to be honored, which I assume it would be since he doesn't give a crap about that film as long as it isnt showing something it shouldnt be. He might lose it but again, I SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE ANYWAY.

Now is it all cleared up for you? I do hope so... and now that we have both vented how about we just move on. Or should we drag this out and bore everyone else a while longer. I have a pretty good idea nobody else gives a rats behind what either of us think of the other.

For me it's about how much you want to sacrifice for your right to make a shot, where you shouldnt be, or of a thing you agreed not to shoot in the first place (concert). I made the statements simply to show people that sometimes its better to weigh the loss against the advantage. But hey you have your own baggage to carry as do I. but I will give you the last word so please feel free I'm personally finished.

Mike_E · May 28, 2007

LOL There are WAY too many people in this thread listening to the voices in their own heads! The OP was talking about wanting to take photos in a posted property and being kept from doing so.

With a little imagination the OP should not only have permission but have the security guard as a guide. Where we as a group have failed is in finding a way to make this happen. (the first step is in finding out who owns the property and who is in charge of it)

While some here are spouting their righteous indignation the fact of the matter is that since 9/11 the world has changed. It has changed for the worse and reminiscing about the occasional dolt in uniform is not going to help. In fact picking out one or even a few bad examples of people in a group to scorn is the basis of racism/religious fanaticism/general fascism and should be avoided like the plague! If you want to really change the world then you must look to the example of[SIZE=-1] Mahatma Gandhi!

[/SIZE]So, let's stop calling each other names and concentrate on getting the OP in and permission to do the shoot!

mike