In gear recommendation threads...

[fjrabon]

Would it be possible to require that people commenting on gear give their experience with that gear? I know that may lower the comments, since it's an extra step, but I see a lot of advice being given where the posters have 0, or very little experience with the gear in question. Especially when it's "up against" gear they own or like. I think that this would make the advice given a LOT more clear, and we could much more easily figure out which of many conflicting opinions to take more seriously.

 

[pixmedic]

while its not a bad idea in principle, I dont see the forum "requiring" posters having experience with specific gear in order to post about it.
while actual hands on experience certainly makes for a more informed response, you don't necessarily have to have experience with something to have an opinion on it.

 

[fjrabon]

while its not a bad idea in principle, I dont see the forum "requiring" posters having experience with specific gear in order to post about it.
while actual hands on experience certainly makes for a more informed response, you don't necessarily have to have experience with something to have an opinion on it.

I'm not saying you have to have used it to comment, just saying you'd need to say that you haven't used it, or that you used a friend's once, or tried it out in a store, or you rented it, or you owned one for a year or whatever.

 

[tirediron]

'cause no one's ever lied on the Interntet....

 

[fjrabon]

'cause no one's ever lied on the Interntet....

oh, sure, I mean I get that there'd be a lot of people who just said "I tried this out and it sucks compared to my D600" without having ever seen the thing in real life, let alone tried it out, but I think it would at least cut down some. Especially for posters who regularly post here and thus it's fairly clear to regulars (who themselves aren't often asking what gear to buy) what gear they have or don't have, because they post about it all the time.

 

[JustJazzie]

I think once a forum starts "requiring" certain things, people will go find a new forum where they can post what they want. I have left several groups who were too picky about how things were posted, and I am sure others are just as annoyed with the process.
I don't see anything stopping the OP from requesting that in the original question though, if its something they actually care about.

 

[480sparky]

'cause no one's ever lied on the Interntet....

Never believe everything you read on the internet.
............................................................................Thomas Jefferson

I generally don't comment in specific gear question threads unless I actually have used the item in question. And I rarely comment in "Which ___________?" threads.

 

[Buckster]

I know exactly what you mean, and it's a pet peeve of mine that people who don't know what they're talking about on a particular subject will chime in and post in such an authoritative manner or from a position as a well-known, long-time, respected member of this forum, that their word is taken as matter-of-fact, when in fact, they're just plain wrong, and don't even know it.

This example comes to mind:

Polarizer for ultra-wide angle lens Photography Forum

 

[runnah]

Some folks, like myself, do do a lot of research before posting an opinion on a product. Others do not.

The reality of the situation is that the vast majority of people have to rely upon what they read and watch to establish an opinion on something. Visiting shops, renting and purchasing are often unrealistic for most people. My nearest camera shop is 150 miles away and they haven't gotten anything new in many years.

 

[Derrel]

Should we require all medical doctors to have had ebola in order to offer treatment for ebola?
Must all surgeons have undergone at least one amputation in order to perform an amputation?
What about cancer? Must a cancer doctor have HAD cancer in order to advise patients with cancer?

My favorite recent issue is the Nikon D600 oil flinging issue. Loads of new owners claiming it did not happen. Swearing up and down that the D600 oil flinging issue was a myth.

Turns out, according to Thom Hogan's research that it takes about 4,000 actuations to occur, and from then on it tends to re-occur worse than on as he put it, any Nikon D-SLR he has ever used.

 

[JustJazzie]

Remember too, that many of the bad reviews written about products online are written by people who have owned and used the gear but didn't understand how to use it correctly. And many of the rave reviews are from people who thought something was awesome because they didn't know any better. I think it's valueable to hear from someone who is knlowadgeable about cameras in general and has read the positive and negative reviews on equipment. They are the ones better able to distinguish the real ups and downs from the uninformed.

Example: when I bought my Sony nex, I read so many RAVE reviews, it got incredible ratings on Amazon so I jumped into mirrorless. I thought I had researched everything and that I was making an informed choice. Had I come here first to ask I likly would have been informed about the fact that the AF was still lacking. Not Many here owned a nex7 at the time, but the members were more knlowadgeable about af systems and how they worked. now I realize those Amazon reviews were mostly from people stepping up from a point and shoot, or from landscape photographers who didn't require phase detect af. Had I sought out the knowledgeable advice of the ones who had researched it instead of the users, I could have saved myself $2000+. *shrug*

 

[Derrel]

There was a really interesting book written some years ago, entitled The Cluetrain Manifesto. The entire book, except for footnotes and such, is available free online now at The Cluetrain Manifesto Entire Text Index Page I read the book right after it came out, and it had a profound impact on my understanding of how markets and companies and products and customers interact.

Chapter 4 is entitled "Markets Are Conversations".the cluetrain manifesto - chapter four

The long and short of it is that in the internet era, people TALK, about products, and about companies, and about customer service experiences, and about how well, or how poorly their products perform. When a company releases a new product, the internet community as a whole picks the product apart, and each and every single weakness is KNOWN, fairly quickly. Even when there are serious flaws, some companies will refuse to say one word about it. Other companies are proactive. Others in between those extremes.

Bottom line is this: since the internet came onto the scene, the REAL truth about almost any product can be discovered by going on-line and doing a bit of searching. You do not need to go out of your way to find out what the significant flaws or weaknesses of a product are; people all over the world are discussing the limits of everything they purchase. Most companies hate this--they are no longer in control, as they used to be. And that is how the internet works; markets are conversations; knowledge is passed around, freely, and rapidly. A person can more easily avoid buying mistakes now than was possible before information sharing among owners became possible. A couple of good examples are the Remington model 700 accidental discharge deaths, and the Ford Pinto rear-impact explosion issues; both pre-dating the internet, these significant safety issues were kept hush-hush for many years.

 

[480sparky]

Remember too, that many of the bad reviews written about products online are written by people who have owned and used the gear but didn't understand how to use it correctly.........

Typically, these are people with zero photography experience (other than their cell phones), and have just purchased the item from a vendor that offers zip for customer service in helping them understand what they just bought (like Amazon). They believe their new $250 p&s or $800 entry-level DSLR/kit lens should be able to read their minds and produce images worthy of the covers of NG or SI.

 

[Buckster]

Should we require all medical doctors to have had ebola in order to offer treatment for ebola?

No, but we should require that they have the most up to date knowledge about treating it, not a guess that the ebola patient just needs chicken soup and bed rest.

Must all surgeons have undergone at least one amputation in order to perform an amputation?

Unless it's a dire emergency, they should have at LEAST the medical knowledge to understand the implications of removing a limb, and it would be even better if they'd at least assisted with the procedure before attempting it on their own. Or would you be okay with Billy Bob the backwoods surgeon coming at you with an ax and saying, "cool! I always wanted to do an amputation!"?

What about cancer? Must a cancer doctor have HAD cancer in order to advise patients with cancer?

No, but they should at least be knowledgeable in that field of medicine. As someone with an incurable cancer in his 14th year with ongoing treatments involving chemo, monoclonal antigens, a stem cell transplant, numerous transfusions, regular blood work, CT scans, PET Scans, etc., etc., etc., I can tell you that I want someone who KNOWS as much about the current treatments and so forth as possible. I'm not interested in having someone who only has guesses.

If the doctor that first diagnosed what was wrong with me already in stage 4 and nearly dead as non-Hodgkins cancer had "guessed" instead that I just has a bad cold, I wouldn't be here to write this. So yeah, it's kinda important that people speaking from a position of authority on a subject actually HAVE the knowledge and experience with that subject, not just guesses.

My favorite recent issue is the Nikon D600 oil flinging issue. Loads of new owners claiming it did not happen. Swearing up and down that the D600 oil flinging issue was a myth.

Turns out, according to Thom Hogan's research that it takes about 4,000 actuations to occur, and from then on it tends to re-occur worse than on as he put it, any Nikon D-SLR he has ever used.

Interesting. Describe his "research method". I bet it was more than just a guess based on what he thinks due to his vast knowledge in general, which seems to me the actual problem up for discussion here.

If someone wants information about the Speedotron Brown Line, should I give out the advice as if I'm an expert on it, even though I've never actually owned or used them, or should I just keep my trap shut and wait for you to come along and give the definitive answer? More importantly, when you don't notice the thread and question so you don't answer, but I DO answer with BS info that's just plain WRONG, is that a good thing, or a bad thing? And not just for that OP, but for anyone else who reads the thread and says to themselves, "gee that Buckster guy sure seems like he knows what he's talking about, and he's been on this forum a long time, and his positives are pretty high - it must be true, so I'll go with what he said."

In my mind, those are the issues under scrutiny here.

 

[Derrel]

Another side of the internet-era conversations about products comes from the rabid fanboy perspective. This is the owner of a product who will deny that there are any issues with the product, since HE happens to own one, or two, or maybe even three good examples of a particular product. And since HIS Widget 546-Mk II unit or units are working currently, then anybody who dares disparage his choice must be a heretical knuckle-dragger.

The fanboy's logic goes like this: "I myself bought a Widget 545 Mk II unit, and it works. Therefore the product must be good, must be reliable, and my own experience must be representative of the entire production of my beloved product! People who warn others that the product might be bad are, liars! or misinformed! or worse!"

The central idea is that one, or two, or three working units MUST mean that the entire production run is equally good. That is patently false, and in fact is impossible to achieve. Why? Mostly due to the way mass-produced products are actually made. Parts supplier problems are a significant source for quality mishaps. So are manufacturing lapses. So are products that are just a tiny bit out of specification. MOST products manufactured today have multiple parts suppliers, and parts supplies are prone to variation, interruption, delays, and so on. Quality Assurance on many items involves measuring only every 100th unit, or less; entire batches of bad products have been known to have made it all the way to end-user hands.

Today, DOA or dead on arrival, or DAOU, dead after one use, are pretty common issues. And yet, to the fanboy who owns a properly-functioning unit, any and all people who dare bring up quality issues will be loudly screamed at.

Welcome to the internet era. You can always tell a fanboy when he cannot acknowledge that the entire community's experience has more validity than his own. Or when he screams at those who dare to say anything even remotely negative about the products that he chose to buy.