What caused this?

Discussion in 'Film Discussion and Q & A' started by Actor, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. Actor

    Actor TPF Noob!

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    This is not an ongoing problem; it happened on only one roll. But I'm curious as to what went caused the dark band along one side of the negative. Of course it appears white on the print.



    [​IMG]
     
  2. randerson07

    randerson07 TPF Noob!

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    Looks like a shutter problem. Like its sticking or something.

    I get the opposite on my Petri at shutter speeds over 125.
    Example
    triX006 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    The second curtain I think comes out too quickly, before the first is clear.
     
  3. compur

    compur No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Were you using a flash?
     
  4. Paul Ron

    Paul Ron TPF Noob!

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    What camera and flash did you use?
     
  5. The Photomonk

    The Photomonk TPF Noob!

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    My guess is also a sticking shutter. Let us know what the camera and flash used are.

    The Photomonk
     
  6. Actor

    Actor TPF Noob!

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    The camera is a Pentax PZ-20. No flash, as can be seen from this frame. Note there is no red eye. Film is Fuji 800.

    Doesn't the shutter alternately move top-to-bottom on one shot and then bottom-to-top on the next. If so, would that not a sticky shutter place the bright area on the bottom on half the shots and at the top on the others? All these are on the bottom(landscape) or on the right(portrait).

    Quite a few rolls have been shot since this party and the problem has not recurred. This is the only roll with the problem. I suspect the lab.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Paul Ron

    Paul Ron TPF Noob!

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    THis shot looks like you did use a flash form the way the shadows are falling n the catch light in the eyes that are dialated. Just because you have n o red eye doesn't mean anything.

    The shot up top is hard to tell if the flash was used or not although the reflective toe of the sneaker may be a give away a flash might have been used. Is teh flash automatic?

    Generally if a focal plane shutter isn't in sync with the flash, it will show the slower shutter and cut off part of your image or leave a bar in it.

    If it was the lab, it may just be the end of a roll or a start frame but not on the edge of the frame, usually the start or end of the frame. What do the negs look like?

    How often does this happen? Is this the only frame on the roll or is every frame on the roll like that? Has it happended on other rolls? One example is not enough unless it;s an intermittant thing that would indicate the camera needs service. Mirror sticking, shutter curtain is lagging... etc.
     
  8. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Does the entire roll of film have a dark band? If so, it might be the lab's fault in some way. In answer to your question about the shutter's travel, no the shutter moves the same direction on each and every shot,and it does not alternate its travel.

    The photo of the child sitting on the floor is clearly a flash shot. It's not too high of a flash sync speed, since that would result in a black-colored band; what we're seeing is gross over-exposure in the camera. Hmmmm.....I wonder if the shutter is not "capping" quite right, and is sticking open at one end of its travel, probably the final end, and is thus grossly over-exposing the film.

    Can you see if the shutter might be the problem by loading a new roll of film and trying a few tests, like loading the film in darkness, capping the lens, and then allowing the camera to sit in BRIGHT light, with the lens cap on for a few minutes, and then at the very end of a roll, shooting seven blank frames at 1/1000 second at f/22 with the lens cap on, so as to move some film out of the cassette, across the film gate, and under literal "wraps" on the take-up spool, to see if the shutter is at fault, and then immediately rewinding the film and getting it developed.

    I'm wondering if the shutter is not "capping" itself--if perhaps some light is coming in through the eyepiece or the lens,and somewhat slowly FOGGING the film through a slightly damaged, or ever-so-slightly open shutter curtain blade. it seems like maybe if you shot in bright light with a piece of black tape over the eyepiece, and then NO tape over the eyepiece, if light is coming in through the eyepiece there'd be a disparity on the negatives. if the light is coming in through the lens and to the shutter ONLY when the shuitter is active, in bright light with a normal exposure, there would be a good exposure, but where the blades do not "cap" themselves, the film could be fogged within 1/100 second that it takes the mirror to swing back down.

    I hope this makes sense...I'm a bit tired today and am running on coffee...
     
  9. Dwig

    Dwig TPF Noob!

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    It does look like a shutter problem, but wouldn't be light coming in through the eyepiece. The raised mirror seals like from the mirrorbox.

    If the black band on the negs spans the space between images it almost certainly happened do to some mishandling of the film, most likely in the lab.

    If the black band stops at the edge of each negative then its a shutter problem. A lab problem wouldn't align the fogging with the frame edges.

    It could be a number of things, all variations on the theme of "the shutter blades stay open over part of the frame to a much longer time than the intended exposure. One possible cause could be the shutter blades stalling and not closing. Another would be that they open for part of the recock process. The sharp edge that shows some crisp texture leads me to feel that the former is more likely.
     
  10. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    I was thinking that light leaking in through the eyepiece would be fogging the film not during exposure, but during NON-shooting times....due to a non-capping shutter problem.

    Do you think it might be that a film chip or fragment is stuck in the shutter mechanism? Such as the kind that can occur when rewinding a roll,and the rewind release pops and a sprocket,or two, gets torn?

    The thing about light leaks, which I have seen many of, from film cartridges and from accidentally opened backs, is that a light leak almost always has a ragged,irregular pattern--it's almost impossible to contol how light leaks into a leaking 35mm film cartridge or cassette. The film closest to the light source is the most-damaged, and the film that is protected by more wraps of film receives the least amount of damage, and there is almost ALWAYS a ragged edge where the least amount of light has fogged the film. BUT THIS case seems to have a very sharp delineation between good, un-fogged film, and the fogged areas, and it also goes completely across the frame's entire width; those two clues make me think of a vertically-traveling, metal focal plane shutter that is not closing right, OR which is opening very slowly and BADLY fogging the film, and then making its traverse across the film at normal speed, delivering the right exposure. Hmmm..and it did it on a flash exposure too....

    I just do not see how this could possibly be a lab problem with the film; the sharp edged light pollution seems very much like it must be from a vertically-travelling focal plane shutter; the fogging's sharp edge makes me think it's coming from light penetrating the shutter curtains; if the fogging were coming in from a distance, or from the film cartridge, or in the developing machine, there'd be an irregular edge...but it's sharply-defined.

    Hmm...I need to look up that camera and see if it has a vertical-traveling FP shutter...
     
  11. Actor

    Actor TPF Noob!

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    Re-stating what I've said in two posts before..

    • The problem has occurred on only one roll of film. No roll of film before or since, and there have been plenty, has had this problem. This is my primary reason for suspecting the lab.
    • All 25 frames on the roll have the effect.
    As to other issues..

    • I don't know if the effect is on the negative. I've assumed it is but I could be wrong. I'm trying to find the negative. I do recall that I requested that the negative be returned uncut and the lab complied with this request. So I'm looking for a negative that is still in its can. I've already confirmed that the negative is not in my negative archival folder.
     
  12. Dwig

    Dwig TPF Noob!

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    Yes, that could produce the problem and would be one of the very few shutter issues that would leave some fogging between frames. It would be more the light coming through the lens, rather than through the VF, that would fog the film, but a percentage could come through the VF when the mirror is down.
     

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