$9k budget on lighting and studio, what to get? Portability is a must..

[Scatterbrained]

They are cheap though comparing to the rest of the setup he has on the list and have much more use than the built-in modeling lights.

Try using them outside during the day.

 

[webrotate360]

Much more use vs modeling lights in a studio setting of course.. I thought he's building a studio.

 

[Derrel]

This post is like so many lighting posts...it features the name "Profoto" prominently, and has a solid budget of $9,000, and yet because it prominently features the name "Profoto", the OP cannot even afford the bread, or the mayo or the mustard or the onions or the pickles or the tomato to make his sammiches...he's shot the whole wad on the lunch meat, and has nothing else to really support it, to wrap around it, to make a sammich...

Shooting "cars" and a priority being "portability" doesn't make a lot of sense. The priority being "portability" would favor battery-operated speedlights first; battery-operated strobes second; and then monolights or pack and head systems dead, dead last. How about, for a portable system, the top priority being RUGGEDNESS under actual use...which leaves two brands as king: Speedotron or Dynalite.

As far as power and overpowering the Arizona sun. The last time I tested, a Speedotron D2400 pack with ONE 102 flash head accepting a mere 1/6 of the power, or 400 Watt-seconds, and an 11.5 inch 50-degree reflector gave a 15 foot-distant reading outdoors, not indoors, of f/13 at ISO 200, the then base ISO of my then-current Nikon. Unlike Paul C. Buff, when Speedotron says, "400 Watt-seconds", the amount of power is real, not some bull$shi+ number slapped on a light that has basically, 66% less power and lower output.

Not some B.S. telephoto or long-throw reflector...a regular, 11.5 inch grid reflector, firing 400 Watt-seconds, off of a $500 20 year-old pack, capable of firing SIX total lights...each just as powerful as this....or even MORE powerful with fewer heads.

If you want to shoot outdoors in the Arizona sun, and you want to light cars and big areas, three expensive monolights that kill a $9k budget is NOT the right way to allocate the money.

 

[Village Idiot]

I'm sorry, but Profoto is very much overrated and overpriced for a person just starting out. You're pouring money down the drain paying for the world's FIRST ttl studio flash unit. Ever wondered why there is NO OTHER TTL studio-type flash unit on the market?

You really need a lot more "stuff" than just lights. I do not consider 1,000 watt-seconds a "powerful" flash...used Speedotron 2,400 Watt-second packs are cheap. You can put 2,400 W-s through one, single flash head, or divide that up and send it though ,2,3,4,5 or 6 heads...

I'm not sold on Profoto's "slickness" or expense...I just do not buy into it for general use. I would look at Dynalite, Speedotron, Bowens, Elinchrom as being much better value for money spent.Even the Paul C. Buff Einstein is relatively close to Profoto for features-on-paper.

Studio flash gear, what does one brand have in common with every other brand? it's allll overpriced when bought new ! Buy used lighting gear! There are thousands of failed professional studio shooters selling their bought-new, high-priced used flash setups every month. Keep that in mind: there are thousands of failed professional studio shooters selling their barely-used flash gear, every month.

I would rather have MORE flash units and MORE grip gear and MORE modifiers and light shaping tools, than a set of Profoto lights that broke the bank and gave me less raw power, and fewer light heads, than I could afford with any of several other brands.

There are some things they bring to the table, but nothing that a beginner would need.

D4 Studio Generators

I've always like the 4 channel packs with four individual power controls compared to the standard operation of a pack system.

They also have an amazing recycle time...on their $13,000 packs. There's a band who's video was shot by a photographer or group of photographers that used something like 8 of those packs and over $100,000 in (rented) lighting gear because they could keep up with the 10fps of the Canon 1D series cameras they were using to do a stop motion video.

Profoto Pro-8A 2400 Air Power Pack 901004 B&H Photo Video

 

[Derrel]

Profoto also brings some amazzzzing horse&hi+ to the table...like this $675 front porch light dome fixture.... Profoto Pro Globe and Ring for Profoto Heads 100673 B&H Photo

Wanna talk about gouging the customer??? See above!!!

http://strobist.blogspot.fr/2012/04/home-depot-homebrew-of-643-profoto.html

 

[Tee]

$9,000 is plenty to start a nice studio/ location set-up. You can buy so much quality lighting and gear for less as Derrel notes above.

Profoto is good but I'm not sure if the OP realizes the modifiers cost soooooo much money. Heck, a carrying case for their beauty dish runs upwards of $250 alone. And, I don't know how else to word this but,....looking at the OP's Flikr, I have a feeling Profoto might be a little too much too soon for his skill level. It's very easy to get roped into the branding of Profoto but there are so many more options out there. Elinchrom, Bowens, etc. So much quality out there at a better cost.

Lastly, if your budget is $9k, then I would set your budget at $7k because there are going to be little things you're forgetting or will find works better than another and will want more of.

P.S. Don't forget a light meter.

 

[Tee]

For grins and giggles, I looked at how much I spent on my lighting set-up which is pretty all purpose. This is all Elinchrom with the exception of one Interfit softbox.

For lights and modifiers only:

• 2- 500BXRi monolights
• 1- 250BXRi monolight
• 1- D-Lite 200RX monolight
• 53" Octobox
• 42"X24" softbox (Interfit)
• 2- 24X24 softbox
• 15X36 stripbox
• beauty dish w/ sock and grid
• snoot w/ grid
• 4- reflectors
• 4- honeycomb grids of various degrees
• 1 pack ND gels for lights
• 1 pack color gels for lights
• 40" 5-way reflector

I got all of the above for just under $2,800. I started out with 2 lights and 2 soft boxes, figured out what I needed and built my kit from there. I found everything but the beauty dish and 2 lights on buy-n-sell forums for 25-50% cheaper than paying retail. The only modifier I could see adding in the future is a barn door and large PLM type modifier. I haven't needed one yet so I won't buy until the need arises.

As you can see, you can get a good lighting kit for far less than your budget. Why not keep a few grand in savings?

BTW- I can get 750-1000 pops on one Vagabond Mini battery compared to the estimated 220 pops of a Profoto B1. I have 2 batteries but have yet to expire one battery in a location session (2-3 hours).

 

[Village Idiot]

Profoto also brings some amazzzzing horse&hi+ to the table...like this $675 front porch light dome fixture.... Profoto Pro Globe and Ring for Profoto Heads 100673 B&H Photo

Wanna talk about gouging the customer??? See above!!!

Strobist: Home Depot Homebrew of $643 Profoto Globe Saves You Enough to Buy a Paul Buff Einstein to Put it On

Their modifier prices are kind of ridiculous. They have an umbrella that's several thousand dollars, IIRC.

There are some benefits to profoto of course, so saying they're not worth the money is not necessarily true depending on your business. It's one of the brands that rental houses are going to be more likely to have, but then again, there are others as well.

And the OP needs to check out weights and physical sizes if portability is an issue with the bigger lights. I had a Pelican case with 5 Speedo 202vf heads, a 1200w/s pack, a 400w/s pack, and all the cables that weighed in over 100lbs. That was not fun carrying around my myself and didn't even include the stands and other accessories. It was a great setup when I didn't need to travel too far from the car.

My Dynalites are much more portable, but even then, they're still heavy. Two heads, an 800w/s pack, two stands, umbrellas, and cables will all fit in to one of my bags and I can carry over a shoulder, but even then they're heavy enough that I wouldn't want to carry them on trek through the woods over a mile to reach my shooting destination (like I've easily done with speed lights). Certain monolights may not be heavy because of their plastic housings, but they're bulky compared to a pack and head style head and where you could easily fit 3-5 compact heads in a bag, that many monolights would require a lot bigger bag or case to fit in.

Speaking of portability. Speedlights may be an option, which with your budget, you could afford 3 or so cheap $100-$150 speed lights for those days where carrying a full studio setup on location isn't feasible. I've shot in location I shouldn't exactly be in and in locations where it's a several mile trek to where I'm shooting. If you're doing anything like this, you don't want the big lights. I've even shot in the rain and a gallon freezer bag will hold a speedlight and a trigger just nicely letting you shoot in conditions where you wouldn't want to have big lights in. The nice thing about diversity though is all the options out there. Elinchrom makes a weather resistant pack and head system that may be battery powered (the Ranger). I've seen a lot of snow sport photographers use them because of the wet conditions they shoot in.

You really need to think about all your options that you'll be shooting and you might even want to take some time before you buy so that way you're not purchasing a set of lights and wanting a different set down the line because they do something you feel you need vs. want you think you want now.

 

[krbimaging]

I was pretty hard set on the Profoto B1 so I got 2 (a kit). Yes, I bought 2 of their Softboxes also and I can tell you these things are some of the best made I have ever seen. Super tough outer hide. Light weight and very easy to set up. The Profoto B1 is it's Firmware upgradable. It works with the Air Remote that uses the TTL on my camera and it's also Firmware upgradeable. If you don't like TTL, fine, don't use it. I do like it. NO wires or cords anywhere. The quality is excellent. I added two extra rechargeable batteries too.

If I want a cheap light modifier on my Profoto I can fit one too. Everyone makes a mount that fits the Profoto. Just because my lights are ProFoto doesn't mean I have to use their modifiers. This is one main thing this post helped with was get me looking around and found allot of modifiers that will work.

I ended up with 5 backgrounds and stands for them. Black, White, Chroma green, Dark tan and a reversible grey/blue.

Stands, and a few other misc items where also purchased.

I also got a IKAN 500W LED bicolor light with some barn doors. This will be a versatile item to have and it can run off a battery system as well.

I stayed well under my 9K budget. My plan is to work with what I got and see what areas I need to fill in. Then I can buy it.

I've already used the B1 and it makes my Canon 600s obsolete. Talk about recycle times being awesome!. Oh just in case anyone wondered the B1 is rated at 220 Flashes at full power. Everything I have shot so far has been at 1/4 power or less. Thus making them shoot for far longer. I took 650 shots and still had half a battery left. When I need those full power shots these lights will go it. But I don't see the need until I am outside at night.

 

[Tee]

If you're happy then that's all that matters. :thumbup:

Keep in mind when buying third party modifiers, make sure you do your homework. Often the cheap price comes with its disadvantages such as color cast through the diffuser panels or uneven light output around the edges (some cheap diffusers can lose 1.5-2 stops of light compared to the center). Check buy-n-sell forums (like Fred Miranda) for people selling Profoto gear. There's almost always a loaded rich dude who found a new hobby to spend money on and wants to get rid of his gear at a nominal price.

 

[sscarmack]

Cant wait to see your photos with these new lights.

 

[studio460]

Strobes/grip/modifiers:

My only caveat is that you may discover that what you want/need now, may be completely different after experiencing a year's worth of more varied assignments. The Profoto B1s are awesome for on-location fashion with an assistant-held modifier, positioned relatively close to your subjects, but for larger set-ups, you may need a lot more than 1,000Ws of portable power for shooting daylight exteriors (e.g., 2,000-4,000Ws). In fact, for many exteriors, a lot of pros use extremely large scrims and reflectors in addition to (or, in place of) high-powered strobes.

My new favorite lighting-control system is Lastolite's re-designed line of portable 6.6' x 6.6' Skylite scrims and reflectors. However, for bigger set-ups, even larger scrims may be required (e.g., 10' x 10', 20' x 20'), plus the requisite pile of ultra-heavy grip gear to rig it. I would consider spending a fair amount of your budget on grip alone (steel location stands, booms, shotbags, scrims, reflectors, etc.). Then again, I've seen a ton of high-profile shoots photographed with just a stupid California Sunbounce reflector:

Personally, I took a piecemeal approach to building my strobe set-up. I basically built separate systems, designed for different types of shoots. Initially, I bought a pile of Speedlights, but the first strobe I bought was a used Dynalite Uni400 AC/DC monolight (which also included a Chimera QR speedring, 18" Dynalite beauty dish, and a Jackrabbit II, all for a fraction of what it would've cost new). However, in retrospect, I wished I would've purchased a pair of Elinchroms (for direct-mounting of their excellent "foldable" modifiers), or a couple of Einstein E640s instead (for their extremely wide power-range).

Later, I purchased a couple of open-box Speedotron Force 10 AC monolights (1,000Ws each), for high-output daylight exteriors, plus two, used Dynalite XP-1100 AC inverters to power them. Total damage: just over $2,000 for 2,000Ws of battery-powered, location strobe lighting (of course, Watt-for-Watt, this only cost a quarter of what B1s would've cost, but it weighs five times more!). Now, had I to do it all over again, I may have chosen differently (although, I'm very happy with the performance of the pair of Speedotron/XP-1100s I own), and of course, I'm still pondering what to do next (see my post in another thread here). While almost anyone's modifiers can be mounted on any brand's strobes, there's certainly benefits to staying within one brand for both strobes and modifiers. FWIW, here's my brief take on the modifiers I've bought, or am now considering:


Profoto RFi:



• Canvas-like build
 (i.e., "durable," but heavy).
• Silver interiors (my preference, since they're cooler than white interiors).

• Recessed-fronts accommodate Velcro-attached softgrids.

• Available softgrids for the entire RFi product line (but I've substituted less expensive, tighter grids from other manufacturers).

• Special features: None, other than their color-keyed speedrings.

The Profoto modifiers I've used and own are well-built, but their larger modifiers (e.g., 4' x 6") are simply too heavy for their rods, and permanently bend out of shape within a few hours (I had two 4' x 6' Profoto softboxes, which I promptly returned). I own a 3' and 5' Profoto RFi octa which I use with both Speedlights and monolights. Contrary to popular perception, their smaller RFi softboxes are fairly affordable, and in fact, their 5' octa costs less then Photoflex' version. One thing I do like about Profoto is their Dynalite speedring--one of the most secure designs available. But, their speedrings made for non-Profoto strobes are heavy, made of solid steel, adding even more weight (and, expense) to your package.



Photoflex:



• Nylon build (lightweight).

• Recessed-front.

• Available softgrids.

• Special features: Patented "Quick Release Corners."



Lightweight and decent quality, and most are reasonably priced. Their nylon construction makes them extremely light, which I like. I own a Photoflex 54" x 72" LiteDome which weighs almost nothing, but I also bought a similarly designed, nylon Calumet 54" x 72" softbox at their liquidation sale--I couldn't resist [note: it's better to buy all the same brand when purchasing white-interior softboxes]. For a softgrid, I bought the Calumet grid which was significantly less expensive than the Photoflex-branded grid.

Elinchrom Rotalux:



• Nylon build (lightweight).

• Flush-front (does not accommodate softgrids).

• Special features: Unique "umbrella-like" design makes for rapid set-up/tear-down (possibly the most attractive feature of the entire system).

I haven't used these myself, but I think they're next on the list. I can't tell you how much I hate building traditional softboxes on-set, including my Profoto RFis, which incorporate no such innovations, and plug into speedrings the same way every other softbox does. For any particular job, I usually build them at home and bring them on-set already pre-built. Sticking steel pins under tension into 8mm holes is not my idea of fun.


You seem pretty set on getting the B1s, and that's fine, if they fulfill a specific requirement that's appropriate for that particular tool. However, keep in mind, that your needs/tastes/working style may change as you take on more varied assignments, and may require acquiring a completely different set of tools in the future. Good luck!

 

[studio460]

Applications:

I just looked at your Flickr gallery, and not to be too presumptuous, but I don't see a lot of strobe work there. Unless money really is no object for you, I would reconsider your options. If you could describe exactly the types of shoots you're planning to shoot, that would better define the tools you would need. It looks like you're planning to shoot single and/or group portraits using backdrops. Plus, you also want to shoot cars. Maybe you're planning to create a portfolio using models with cars?

In-studio portraiture:

For in-studio portraiture, you would need more units. I use four strobes (actually, a combination of Speedlights, a Qflash, and one AC monolight). Here's the conventional set-up (whether AC monolights, head-and-pack heads, or Speedlights, I'll use the term "strobe" to apply to all):

• Strobe A: primary key.
• Strobe B: fill.
• Strobe C: backlight.
• Strobe D: background light.

Now, typically, in-studio, you have access to 120VAC, so you wouldn't want to use up your pricey Li-ion batteries for interior applications (I don't even know if the B1s are powerable by AC--are they?). I see that the B1s have an extremely wide power range (2-500Ws), so you won't have an issue with too much output (an issue I'm dealing with now, using my 400Ws Dynalite monolight). But what will you use for your hairlight and background lights? As others have mentioned, a pack-and-head system would take care of this type of shoot quite nicely. As monolights become increasingly popular, used pack-and-head systems are now quite the bargain [personally, I'm planning an all-Speedlight portrait lighting set-up as described in another thread]. Four, individual AC monolights would also work (which I personally prefer over head-and-pack systems).

Daylight exteriors--model with a car:

For this type of shoot, I think the B1s would work great. Use one B1 on the model, and perhaps rake the car with the second B1. But at only 500Ws each, you won't be able to use large softboxes under direct-sun, unless they're extremely close to your subjects. For a large exterior shoot in mid-day sun, I would want to have 2,000-4,000Ws. If shooting under cloud cover, or at dusk, the B1s should be fine.

Given just these two examples, I would suggest more varied strobe set-ups in your inventory. Again, personally, I bought separate systems for different things. For example, I purchased all Profoto RFi softboxes with softgrids specifically for interior work. For exterior work, I think the flush-front, non-griddable, Elinchrom Rotalux modifiers are better.

Modifiers:

• Interiors: Profoto RFi with softgrids.

In-studio shooting often requires more control over stray light, so I chose a modifier system where a softgrid was available for each unit. Photoflex is another manufacturer which offers softgrids for most of their softboxes. Note that the Profoto RFis are heavy and difficult to assemble, so they're better used in more permanent set-ups.


• Exteriors: Elinchrom Rotalux (no grids).

Since when shooting daylight exteriors, spill isn't really a concern, softgrids aren't necessary. Also, I would choose a nylon-constructed modifier for outdoor use mainly because they're so much lighter than the canvas-like softboxes which are also rated for hot lights (e.g., Profoto RFi). Also, when shooting on location, portability and quick set-up are often the priorities. So, again, Elinchrom's unique umbrella-like Rotalux design is both lightweight and very quick to assemble, and is my first-choice for an outdoor modifier.

 

[Tee]

I'm pretty sure the OP had it dead set in his mind he was going with Profoto and was hoping to validate his thoughts by collecting pats on the head and "oohs" and "ahhh's" from the crowd, only to receive many replies helping him make use of his money in a more feasible manner. This explains why he never replied yet logged in often and finally replied when he made his purchase. Like I said, as long as he's happy then I say mazel tov!

 

[studio460]

Ah . . . gotcha. I have to admit, when I first saw the Profoto B1, I was pretty excited myself. Then, I almost bought a used Ranger Quadra on eBay, then chickened-out. Sure, it'd be nice have some really slick location gear, but since I'm not yet shooting stills full-time, I can't really justify these kinds of purchases. There's a new Godox "Quadra-like" system that's pretty affordable [Godox RS600P], and I may get that (about $700 for a 600Ws head-and-pack, plus a spare battery), but it's only available from eBay importers. And, as an import, I don't think there's going to be any kind of after-sales support. I think it would be interesting to those of us who already own a pile of strobes, if we each thought up a list of all new gear we would purchase instead, given a $9,000 budget.

Here's my re-posted comments from another site about the Godox Xenergizer:

"At least on paper, the new Godox Xenergizer 400Ws/600Ws portable strobe systems seem the top-value buy today. The 12.8V/8.0Ah battery is no slouch--graced with a few more amp-hours of capacity than most other competing systems. Plus, a claimed recycle time of only 2.5-seconds at max power is truly impressive.

"At flashhavoc's referred seller, the 600Ws version sells for only $533 USD . . . a super-value compared to competing systems. A bit long in lead time for delivery for their free shipping option, but they also offer expedited shipping for those with more dollars than patience. I'll probably be ordering one soon myself (I just need to find out how much a spare Xenergizer Li-ion battery costs). If it works as advertised, this would be my top-pick for a portable strobe system today.

" . . . I did finally find a Hong Kong-based eBay seller (GodoxStudio/goodboystudio), selling replacement batteries (in their factory-molded Godox housings) which clip onto the bottom of the Godox pack for $179 USD each (which is a bit less than what a small Bowens TravelPak battery goes for, at $210 each). That makes it a total of $712 USD for a complete Godox 600Ws system, plus a spare battery."

According to flashhavoc, they also report that the Xenergizer has a re-designed head, with a "mostly metal build," and is strong enough to support "large softboxes and modifiers" on the unit's built-in Bowens S-mount.

So, here's what I think would be a super system on the cheap:

• Godox Xenergizer RS600P 600Ws portable strobe system with one battery: $533.
• Godox Xenergizer spare battery: $179.
• Elinchrom speedring for Bowens: $78.88.
• Elinchrom 39" Mini-Octa: $254.99, and/or Elinchrom 53" Midi-Octa: $314.99.

That's $1,045.87 for the set-up with the 39" Mini-Octa, or $1,105.87 with the 53" Midi-Octa.