Another question about lighting

[JerryPH]

A lot of amazing shots are done on those $80 Sunpack 383s... but it depends on many things.

The SB-800 is without doubt the best battery powered strobe on the market, bar none... but you can *ALMOST* have 4 Sunpacks for the price of a single SB-800.

We *are* still talking staving student prices and a beginner to strobism, no?

 

[Village Idiot]

That starving student kit has about $90 worth of junk in it.

All you need is:
- $15-$25 light stand
- $80 strobe
- $10 optical trigger

... and for a beginner you are good to go!

Vivtar 285HV - $90
Light Stand - $35
15ft PC cord - $15
43" umbrella - $20
4AA rechargables with charger - $20
Umbrella bracket - $15

$195. That's the prices for those items seperate on B&H. The kit is $199. When using a flash off camera you need all of that stuff. Replacing the cable with an optical slave won't save you much money. Plus in your setup, you're missing some things. An umbrella is an almost necessary modifier. That's $35 for an umbrella and adapter. Plus the real cheap light stands are just that....real cheap. The one in the MPEX kit is an 8' air cushioned stand. I've seen some of the cheaper ones and it's fun to watch the strobe sway back and forth on a shoddy stand and take best on how long it takes before it falls. Plus your strobe needs batteries. Any way you look at it, rechargables are the way to go.

A lot of amazing shots are done on those $80 Sunpack 383s... but it depends on many things.

The SB-800 is without doubt the best battery powered strobe on the market, bar none... but you can *ALMOST* have 4 Sunpacks for the price of a single SB-800.

We *are* still talking staving student prices and a beginner to strobism, no?

And the SB-800 because a waste of $220 once you start firing it with optical slaves or radio triggers. If you're not using it on camera with the TTL functions or you're not using it for CLS, skip it.

 

[ryan7783]

So what I'm hearing is that the following items would be fine:

Vivtar 285HV - $90
Light Stand - $35
15ft PC cord - $15
43" umbrella - $20
4AA rechargables with charger - $20
Umbrella bracket - $15

yes? I'm trying to wade my way through all the discussion and find out exactly what I need to get started. I'm not a starving student but I do want a good deal. Really what I'm looking for is a list of the things I NEED to get started. What's the basic outfit?

 

[JerryPH]

I've seen new 383s for $70+ shipping.

Stands for $15

Optical trigger for $10 or a 15ft wire for $5

43" umrella is too big for most battery powered strobes, but a 35" one is $15

Brackets are $16.

These are all prices I saw on Amazon last week.

Totaled out using the more expensive amounts, hat comes out to $131. If you shop around or are good on eBay, I bet you could knock off $20 off this amount easily enough... I know many people that have.

On top of that, for a beginner, its easy to remove the umbrella and bracket and do beautiful shots as they are learning. Umbrellas are also not very wind friendly outside without special stands and a few sand bags.

If you want to start cheap, to learn the basics and still get some awesome shots, get just what you need, and add accessories later (which is what the other things are anyways).

I know many people that are under or near $100 for a basic kit. My 16 year old cousin even built his own light stand and made his own sync cord for the price of 2 connectors at Addision Electronics ($2) using braided wire he found in the garage (18 feet total). His cost is a Sunpack and batteries (scratch the batteries, I gave him 8 of my 1 year old Energizers and a charger for free as of tomorrow... lol I ordered some new ones online last night). His lightstand is a piece of wood stuck into a paint pail filled with cement. He plans to spray paint it black next weekend when it stops raining here.

Total cost? About $77 and $5 of uncle's gas to drive him to Addision and back. That is the very definition of affordable.

Innovation and a little creativity can do amazing things in terms of bringing down costs.

 

[ryan7783]

I've seen new 383s for $70+ shipping.

Stands for $15

Optical trigger for $10 or a 15ft wire for $5

43" umrella is too big for most battery powered strobes, but a 35" one is $15

Brackets are $16.

These are all prices I saw on Amazon last week.

Totaled out using the more expensive amounts, hat comes out to $131. If you shop around or are good on eBay, I bet you could knock off $20 off this amount easily enough... I know many people that have.

On top of that, for a beginner, its easy to remove the umbrella and bracket and do beautiful shots as they are learning. Umbrellas are also not very wind friendly outside without special stands and a few sand bags.

If you want to start cheap, to learn the basics and still get some awesome shots, get just what you need, and add accessories later (which is what the other things are anyways).

I know many people that are under or near $100 for a basic kit. My 16 year old cousin even built his own light stand and made his own sync cord for the price of 2 connectors at Addision Electronics ($2) using braided wire he found in the garage (18 feet total). His cost is a Sunpack and batteries (scratch the batteries, I gave him 8 of my 1 year old Energizers and a charger for free as of tomorrow... lol I ordered some new ones online last night). His lightstand is a piece of wood stuck into a paint pail filled with cement. He plans to spray paint it black next weekend when it stops raining here.

Innovation and a little creativity can do amazing things in terms of bringing down costs.

Thanks for the info. I'm actually very much into wood working and am quite innovative if I may say so. I'll probably make my own stand in a similar fashion.

 

[ryan7783]

come to find out my fiance has a Vivtar 2800. Will that work alright?

 

[Village Idiot]

Actually, it's easy to over shoot a 43" umbrella. It's definitely not too big.

 

[RyanLilly]

I agree that a cheap strobist setup is a great start. There was also a video that I saw from a link somewhere on strobist about using two 48" fluorescent shoplights and Daylight tubes for "high fashion" type shots. Might be a good use for modeling t-shirts on people. Ill try to find the link, its on youtube somewhere.

 

[ryan7783]

I agree that a cheap strobist setup is a great start. There was also a video that I saw from a link somewhere on strobist about using two 48" fluorescent shoplights and Daylight tubes for "high fashion" type shots. Might be a good use for modeling t-shirts on people. Ill try to find the link, its on youtube somewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eik8iWX97pc

I like it. Simple, cheap, effective. I shall try it out. Thanks for the link

 

[Tiberius47]

thanks very much. So you're saying I need a flash with manual adjustments, a tripod, and a cord?

Yeah. In a way. A flash with manual adjustments is going to give you the most flexibility, and other than that you just need a way to hold it off camera and a way to make it fire at the right time.

So whether it be using a sync cord and putting it on a tripod, or using pocket wizards and putting it on a carbon fiber light stand, or optical slaves and getting your best friend to hold it, doesn't really matter. Just as long as you have a manual flash, a way to hold it and a way to fire it. That's aall you really need for off camera flash. The rest - brollies, soft boxes, mulitple flashes etc - is just ways to give you more flexibility.

 

[ryan7783]

Yeah. In a way. A flash with manual adjustments is going to give you the most flexibility, and other than that you just need a way to hold it off camera and a way to make it fire at the right time.

So whether it be using a sync cord and putting it on a tripod, or using pocket wizards and putting it on a carbon fiber light stand, or optical slaves and getting your best friend to hold it, doesn't really matter. Just as long as you have a manual flash, a way to hold it and a way to fire it. That's aall you really need for off camera flash. The rest - brollies, soft boxes, mulitple flashes etc - is just ways to give you more flexibility.

got it. thanks for clearing that up :thumbup:

 

[JerryPH]

I like it. Simple, cheap, effective. I shall try it out. Thanks for the link

... and poorer results, no portability, no adjustability and likely just as much $$ if not a little more all in the end.

 

[JerryPH]

Actually, it's easy to over shoot a 43" umbrella. It's definitely not too big.

With a Sunpack? When was the last time you tried? I did on a 45" last night (slightly bigger) and had to crank it up to 1:1, gave up and shot with the 35" umbrella to get the exposure needed. It is worth about a good 1-1.5 stops more and all I lose is about 1 foot width at 4 feet from the subject. Big differences, so choose based on needs, I would think.

Besides, I often do not even use an umbrella, it makes me think more about different lighting possibilities.

 

[Village Idiot]

With a Sunpack? When was the last time you tried? I did on a 45" last night (slightly bigger) and had to crank it up to 1:1, gave up and shot with the 35" umbrella to get the exposure needed. It is worth about a good 1-1.5 stops more and all I lose is about 1 foot width at 4 feet from the subject. Big differences, so choose based on needs, I would think.

Besides, I often do not even use an umbrella, it makes me think more about different lighting possibilities.

Image right, Shoot through over shot.


And as far as exposure goes, I never have a problem with it, even with my Vivitars. We were shooting with a set of Vivitars at 1/4 power and they lit up a whole room.

I don't like the harsh look of bare speed lights.

 

[ryan7783]

... and poorer results, no portability, no adjustability and likely just as much $$ if not a little more all in the end.

I'm getting the stuff for free from work. I work with a number of electricians, one of which said he has a couple extra shop lights lying around. And I also work with some carpenters who had some extra material lying around for the light stands.