B & W SERIOUS QUESTION !

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

off topic but i am dying to get back in the darkroom (even if it is black), but i have to wait till everyone pays their fee! i just developed a roll and they are perfect! anyway back to the "digital darkroom". though i am going digital myself i will never call my mac a darkroom! i will call my guest bathroom a darkroom though! as soon as i get one......lol

 

[LaFoto]

Equally off topic: also I would love to "learn darkroom", and if only for b&w photography, but the Durst enlarger that used to be in my uncle's darkroom (which was light yellow and white , but all black with a little red when work was on - and no picture my dad and uncle created was ever foggy in any way) now is somewhere in my sister's or dad's possession, wrapped up in plastic, with all the baths and pliers (are they also called that, the things you grab the photos with?) also wrapped up ... and unused. Sniff-sniff...

 

[craig]

LOl !! your computer is your "lightroom" there is nothing Dark about your computer.

sorry I just couldn't resist! terminolgy is important to express yourself! I am a stickler for "details" !

Actually I view my photos with an 18% grey or 100% black background. Seems to be dark on this end.

 

[Efergoh]

I think I'll stick with a dark darkroom, if you don't mind. I spend less money on paper that way.

 

[Majik Imaje]

WHAT MAKES you think? that a darrk room is any lighter because of the color of the walls? it is just as DARK..

unless.. I turn on a safelight!

but when I work on a color posterization and that sheet of 16 x 20 paper is out on the easel for as long as ONE HOUR. I can't use any safelghts and that room is pitch black, JUST AS BLACK as a room with black walls.

I have 30 or 40 high contrast negatives & positives I have to expose that one sheet of paper to. "USING MASKS.. passing colored light through that pair of masks to "paint" color onto that sheet of paper.

if there were any "INFLUENCE" OF EXTRANEOUS light.. my paper would show it instantlly being out as long as that for an hour or longer.!

Hertz was 100% correct. .when he said.. some people just don't understand.. 'THEORY"!

 

[LaFoto]

.. some people just don't understand.. 'THEORY"!

Come on, leave it be now.
We all know your opinion and others have theirs and are entitled to it as much as you are to yours. OK?

 

[Hertz van Rental]

Hmm. I think I am being referred to somewhere in here...
But this is getting silly and rather annoying so now for the definitive answer.
The colour depends upon which part of the darkroom you are talking about and wether it is for B&W or colour work.
Like everything else in Photography, the darkroom is all about light management. You want light where you need it and not where you don't.
The darkroom (or at least big ones for Colleges and such) can be divided into three areas: film processing, print processing and finishing.
Film processing can be sub-divided into two sub-areas: film loading and film processing.
Film loading (B&W and colour) is usually done in small rooms or bays. Because film is in there unprotected you need a total absence of light so all walls, paintwork and ceilings (as well as floor covering) should be matt black to stop any stray light bouncing around. The same colour scheme should be applied to rooms for hand line film processing using deep tanks.
Film processing, when using daylight loading tanks like Paterson, can be done in daylight or normal room lighting so the room can be any colour you like. White is traditional, though. But if the area is used for other purposes (like dish development of film) then it is more practical to paint it all black like a loading bay.
B&W printing rooms should have white walls and ceilings to maximise safelight illumination. However, the area around each individual enlarger should be matt black to eliminate fogging and flare effects from overspill from the enlargers. Ligh traps for ventilation and entrances should also be matt black, unless very expensive purpose built units (like rotating light trap doors) are used.
Colour printing rooms should be matt black throughout as the materials used are panchromatic.
Finishing areas are lit by daylight or normal room lighting and so can be any colour but are traditionally white.

Note: if darkrooms were truly dark then you could paint everything white as once the lights were out there would be no light to bounce around.
Sadly, in practice this is not the case so the above paint schemes should be adhered to. Especially if you are going to be processing high speed material, IR material or anything that needs a very long exposure.
It's best to err on the side of caution than to fog your materials.

If anyone wants to really be bored stupid then I can go into ventillation schemes, COSSH storage details, fire exits and extinguishers, signage, flooring, constructional details, wiring, plumbing and BS standards and all the other mind numbing stuff I used to have to talk about to architects, builders and building inspectors.

Now let's please move on.

 

[Majik Imaje]

but here it is anyway..

my final post on this subject.

Since I have been responsible for installing electrical in darkrooms in dozens of colleges and High schools.
I can speak with a certain amount of knowledge. and skills as I am fluent in each area of both construction and installation and enough knowledge about Photography to say this.
No one in this web site is building a college style darkroom to hold masses of people.
My posts and info is all about a home darkroom.
I agree with a lot of what you said but you made too many mistakes.
sorry, I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.
I have worked in this industry for decades as well as yourself.
I have worked with architects,Inspectors and I am more than qualified to speak on construction because that has been my whole life.
As an electrican I have a certain amount of skill and have applied my skills to all 16 darkrooms I have built for home use.
Plus one darkroom to hold masses 20 - 40 students at once.
That darkroom was 100% white even the floors and the booths. I have to admit it was blinding when the lights went on.
but no student or myself has ever lost a roll of film or as much as one sheet of color paper! 38 rolls of film being batch processed in-line 3 1/2 gallon open tanks and not one roll of film was ever fogged or lost.
I often have color paper out (16 x 20 sheets) for up to an hour (no safelights) as you know exposure to that light is limited in miniutes & from a certain distance also. I have never once experienced any fog, it would be instantly apparent. threrfore

But for the home user. now we are in a different zone so to speak.
90% of what applies to your areas doens't apply to a home darkroom.
No exit sign is needed. Neutralizing tanks for chemicals are not needed or used or even installed. Fire alarm systems, rate of rise, and smoke alarms are not needed in home units.
One of the things I have always noticed in colleges and in high schools is that so often recepticles are at the wrong height and in the wrong places.

I have seen 7 people die in front of me at work due to stupidity. I don't ever want to see that happen ever again. I have my way..
NO ELECTRICAL anywere near a wet area. nothing that a person can accidently touch with wet hands. TRUE; GFCI (ground fault circuit interuption) is allowed in wet areas, but I am not willing to ever take that chance. it is an un-necessary "RISK".

Thre is nothing complicated about wiring and installing electrical in a darkroom, it is child's play. much like wiring any house. it is all very simple, nothing complicated what-so-ever. But there are important safety issues.

Water and electricy never mix, so keep them as far apart as possible.

in all my darkrooms, I have observed and put into practice what you mentioned.. a dry finishing area, a special room (place) for rolling film and such, I have areas, you have rooms or booths, same basic principle.
Working at General Electric & Westinhouse, Polaroid, and many other huge factories, while working high on a ladder, I would see a company photograher walk through the area with an 8 x 10 camera or a 4 x 5 camera, I would be down off that ladder immediately and following that person. I have learned a lot, merely from talking to these professionals, once they saw the look on my face like a little kid Christmas morning they were very eager to be helpful and answer my questions.
If I had ever worked at your college.. I would have been hounding you every lunch time.. every coffee break.. I would stay after work just to speak with you. you eventually would lock your door or refuse to see me.
I am obsessed with photography and that will never ever change.

I enjoy immensly helping other people set up and experience the thrill of having their own darkroom. that is my purpose for being here on this site.. to share some of the knowledge I have LEARNED.

I have one question that I sincerly would like an honest answer to later this week perhaps. what is the height of your work benches, tables?

you started your post with "this is getting silly".

silly is the answer you gave me when I asked an honest question to you earler. about the color(s) of your darkroom areas "floral patterns and pink and such." that was silly sir!

I really am 100% sincere when I honeslty say.. I am blown away at your credentials. I have the utmost respect, I don't agree with some of your statements. but I will say this and I mean it with all my heart.
I would have gladly given up my legs.. to attend any college to learn more!
I know beyond any shadow of doubt, there would be LOTS you could teach me. and by some of your statments on this post, I know there are somethings I could PROVE to you.



I hope we get the chance to sit down and discuss photographic principles sometime in the near future. who knows.. I might just get drunk for the first time for that one!

 

[JC1220]

A white darkroom is a happy darkroom.

I use to belong to a group of photographers where we shared about 4 darkrooms and studio space, all of them were painted black. When we moved to a larger space, it took a huge amount of convincing to leave just one B&W room white or even light gray for that matter. The reason most of them wanted them black was 1) they didn't know anything else and 2) some of them were color printers and anything that reflects light is bad for a color printing darkroom.

Anyway, a white darkroom and a thomas safelight is a real joy of a darkroom to work in.

 

[JC1220]

I have one question that I sincerly would like an honest answer to later this week perhaps. what is the height of your work benches, tables?

The top of the decks at most of my stations are 39 inches, same for the top edge of my sinks with them only being about 6 inches deep. Everything else is built on a standard cabinet base for storage, so those are around 36" to top of deck.

This works for me because I am 6 feet tall, less fatigue on the back, all depends on your height really.

 

[j_mcquillen]

I guess this is a bit like the whole "digital or film???" debate that we all got sick of hearing people argue over not so very long ago.

If a black dark-room works for you, fine.
If a white/yellow/blue/stripy/polka-dot dark-room works for you, also fine.

People have been using black dark-rooms for years, and have produced countless examples of fantastic prints. Others I'm sure will have produced fantastic prints in white dark-rooms.

There's no right or wrong, just do whatever you're happy with that gets you the results you want.

 

[fmw]

but here it is anyway..

my final post on this subject.

Whew! At last!

 

[JohnMF]

i believe Goth photographers prefare to have a black darkroom

 

[THORHAMMER]

wow, I never knew all those long hours playing with fixer could actually make someone so.... different..

 

[neea]

Does it really make THAT much of a difference?