Balancing ambient and flash....

[weepete]

Hi Jazzie, you may have had this link before but I learned a lot from it Strobist: Lighting 101

Manual flash is fine, I think its something you can get a feel for quite quickly and ballpark quite a bit. I only have a manual flash too but after a wee bit of experience I'm reasonably happy using it.

I find I quite often get a fair amount of spill when shooting around the house so I tend to bump my iso up to 400 or so, choose my f number (bearing in mind this will alter your depth of field as well) meter on the ambient and set my shutter speed to underexpose by 3 2/3 stops and take a few test shots at minimum flash power. I can then adjust either the flash power, f stop, iso or shutter speed to alter the exposure and get near enough what I want.

Your issue with the background sounds to me like light fall off and counter intuativley you may want your light source further away to get more light on the background rather than closer. Light modifiers can also help, too. I got myself a couple of cheap umbrellas recently but yet to play with them as bare flash can make the light a bit more harsh

 

[TCampbell]

When mixing two light sources that have different color temperatures, one will need to be covered with a gel.

Specifically if it's incandescent light then it would be a CTO or "Color Temperature Orange" gel. That tints the color of the flash to somewhat match the color of the incandescent light.

 

[Village Idiot]

Don't worry about your shutter speed. It has no effect as far as child movement goes - it only affects the amount of ambient light in the image. Set your background/ambient exposure (you may see a little movement blur in the Christmas lights, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if it is, use a tripod), then add your flash, as close to the subjects as possible and as low a power as necessary. The short duration of the flash (likely <1/500) will ensure that any movement of the children is frozen.

This! When I shot my most recent wedding reception and was shooting some of the dancing, I was shooting around 1/60th and bouncing the flash, but the shots were tack sharp. The flash will stop your motion, and the SS will control your ambient.

On a separate note, when I'm in the field, I'll expose for ambient and lock those settings in (typically under-expose anywhere's between 1/3 and 1 stop), and then fill back in with flash by using a light meter to get the proper exposure.

Were you bouncing the flash? My settings might have been more like 5.6, 1/60th, and as low an ISO as I can go. 128000, f5.6, and 1/125 seems like an incredibly DARK room for inside a house

Cheers!
Jake

Just be careful with this because shutter speed can have a direct effect on motion blur when shooting with flash if your ambient is high enough.

When shooting with a flash you’re getting two exposures, the ambient and the flash. If the ambient is not strong enough to expose your subject and your shutter speed is fast enough, then your subject should be sharp. However, if you have to use a shutter speed that’s slower or your ambient is enough to exposure your subject, there may be motion blur. Your subject will have one exposure that’s sharp from the flash and one that is blurred from the ambient.

Example:

The sharp portions in the two above photos are from the flash exposure stopping motion and the blur is from the ambient and a slow enough shutter speed. Most cameras and flashes should have a rear curtain sync but I don’t know if this works with a flash off camera. The way a flash works without it is the flash fires at the moment the shutter opens and then shutter does it’s thing. If you’re using a longer shutter speed, the subject will have a nice exposure then a trail leading away from it like it moved backwards. The rear shutter sync changes this so that the flash fires before the shutter closes all the way and makes it look the opposite, like you would imaging The Flash looking as he ran.

 

[D-B-J]

Don't worry about your shutter speed. It has no effect as far as child movement goes - it only affects the amount of ambient light in the image. Set your background/ambient exposure (you may see a little movement blur in the Christmas lights, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if it is, use a tripod), then add your flash, as close to the subjects as possible and as low a power as necessary. The short duration of the flash (likely <1/500) will ensure that any movement of the children is frozen.

This! When I shot my most recent wedding reception and was shooting some of the dancing, I was shooting around 1/60th and bouncing the flash, but the shots were tack sharp. The flash will stop your motion, and the SS will control your ambient.

On a separate note, when I'm in the field, I'll expose for ambient and lock those settings in (typically under-expose anywhere's between 1/3 and 1 stop), and then fill back in with flash by using a light meter to get the proper exposure.

Were you bouncing the flash? My settings might have been more like 5.6, 1/60th, and as low an ISO as I can go. 128000, f5.6, and 1/125 seems like an incredibly DARK room for inside a house

Cheers!
Jake

Just be careful with this because shutter speed can have a direct effect on motion blur when shooting with flash if your ambient is high enough.

When shooting with a flash you’re getting two exposures, the ambient and the flash. If the ambient is not strong enough to expose your subject and your shutter speed is fast enough, then your subject should be sharp. However, if you have to use a shutter speed that’s slower or your ambient is enough to exposure your subject, there may be motion blur. Your subject will have one exposure that’s sharp from the flash and one that is blurred from the ambient.

Example:

The sharp portions in the two above photos are from the flash exposure stopping motion and the blur is from the ambient and a slow enough shutter speed. Most cameras and flashes should have a rear curtain sync but I don’t know if this works with a flash off camera. The way a flash works without it is the flash fires at the moment the shutter opens and then shutter does it’s thing. If you’re using a longer shutter speed, the subject will have a nice exposure then a trail leading away from it like it moved backwards. The rear shutter sync changes this so that the flash fires before the shutter closes all the way and makes it look the opposite, like you would imaging The Flash looking as he ran.

Good point!

 

[JustJazzie]

Thanks so much to everyone who chimed in with some tips for me! Ill give them all a shot and see what ends up working out.

My sister and nephew are coming into town today and staying a bit, so I will be pretty busy. Hopefully I can squeeze in some time to try again. If not, at least I will be getting a chance to try my hand at some studio work this week!

 

[tirediron]

Don't worry about your shutter speed. It has no effect as far as child movement goes - it only affects the amount of ambient light in the image. Set your background/ambient exposure (you may see a little movement blur in the Christmas lights, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if it is, use a tripod), then add your flash, as close to the subjects as possible and as low a power as necessary. The short duration of the flash (likely <1/500) will ensure that any movement of the children is frozen.

This! When I shot my most recent wedding reception and was shooting some of the dancing, I was shooting around 1/60th and bouncing the flash, but the shots were tack sharp. The flash will stop your motion, and the SS will control your ambient.

On a separate note, when I'm in the field, I'll expose for ambient and lock those settings in (typically under-expose anywhere's between 1/3 and 1 stop), and then fill back in with flash by using a light meter to get the proper exposure.

Were you bouncing the flash? My settings might have been more like 5.6, 1/60th, and as low an ISO as I can go. 128000, f5.6, and 1/125 seems like an incredibly DARK room for inside a house

Cheers!
Jake

Just be careful with this because shutter speed can have a direct effect on motion blur when shooting with flash if your ambient is high enough.

When shooting with a flash you’re getting two exposures, the ambient and the flash. If the ambient is not strong enough to expose your subject and your shutter speed is fast enough, then your subject should be sharp. However, if you have to use a shutter speed that’s slower or your ambient is enough to exposure your subject, there may be motion blur. Your subject will have one exposure that’s sharp from the flash and one that is blurred from the ambient.

Example:

The sharp portions in the two above photos are from the flash exposure stopping motion and the blur is from the ambient and a slow enough shutter speed. Most cameras and flashes should have a rear curtain sync but I don’t know if this works with a flash off camera. The way a flash works without it is the flash fires at the moment the shutter opens and then shutter does it’s thing. If you’re using a longer shutter speed, the subject will have a nice exposure then a trail leading away from it like it moved backwards. The rear shutter sync changes this so that the flash fires before the shutter closes all the way and makes it look the opposite, like you would imaging The Flash looking as he ran.

Good point!

Absolutely - I was going on the assumption that if she was shooting at 12,800, then ambient wasn't a huge concern!

 

[Village Idiot]

Don't worry about your shutter speed. It has no effect as far as child movement goes - it only affects the amount of ambient light in the image. Set your background/ambient exposure (you may see a little movement blur in the Christmas lights, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if it is, use a tripod), then add your flash, as close to the subjects as possible and as low a power as necessary. The short duration of the flash (likely <1/500) will ensure that any movement of the children is frozen.

This! When I shot my most recent wedding reception and was shooting some of the dancing, I was shooting around 1/60th and bouncing the flash, but the shots were tack sharp. The flash will stop your motion, and the SS will control your ambient.

On a separate note, when I'm in the field, I'll expose for ambient and lock those settings in (typically under-expose anywhere's between 1/3 and 1 stop), and then fill back in with flash by using a light meter to get the proper exposure.

Were you bouncing the flash? My settings might have been more like 5.6, 1/60th, and as low an ISO as I can go. 128000, f5.6, and 1/125 seems like an incredibly DARK room for inside a house

Cheers!
Jake

Just be careful with this because shutter speed can have a direct effect on motion blur when shooting with flash if your ambient is high enough.

When shooting with a flash you’re getting two exposures, the ambient and the flash. If the ambient is not strong enough to expose your subject and your shutter speed is fast enough, then your subject should be sharp. However, if you have to use a shutter speed that’s slower or your ambient is enough to exposure your subject, there may be motion blur. Your subject will have one exposure that’s sharp from the flash and one that is blurred from the ambient.

Example:

The sharp portions in the two above photos are from the flash exposure stopping motion and the blur is from the ambient and a slow enough shutter speed. Most cameras and flashes should have a rear curtain sync but I don’t know if this works with a flash off camera. The way a flash works without it is the flash fires at the moment the shutter opens and then shutter does it’s thing. If you’re using a longer shutter speed, the subject will have a nice exposure then a trail leading away from it like it moved backwards. The rear shutter sync changes this so that the flash fires before the shutter closes all the way and makes it look the opposite, like you would imaging The Flash looking as he ran.

Good point!

Absolutely - I was going on the assumption that if she was shooting at 12,800, then ambient wasn't a huge concern!

In some sort of extreme case or coincidence, it may be, but it would probably be more important for a person to know about ambient “bleed” when they try to technique out a second time in a different situation and end up wondering my their picture is blurry even though they’re using a flash.

 

[tirediron]

Don't worry about your shutter speed. It has no effect as far as child movement goes - it only affects the amount of ambient light in the image. Set your background/ambient exposure (you may see a little movement blur in the Christmas lights, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but if it is, use a tripod), then add your flash, as close to the subjects as possible and as low a power as necessary. The short duration of the flash (likely <1/500) will ensure that any movement of the children is frozen.

This! When I shot my most recent wedding reception and was shooting some of the dancing, I was shooting around 1/60th and bouncing the flash, but the shots were tack sharp. The flash will stop your motion, and the SS will control your ambient.

On a separate note, when I'm in the field, I'll expose for ambient and lock those settings in (typically under-expose anywhere's between 1/3 and 1 stop), and then fill back in with flash by using a light meter to get the proper exposure.

Were you bouncing the flash? My settings might have been more like 5.6, 1/60th, and as low an ISO as I can go. 128000, f5.6, and 1/125 seems like an incredibly DARK room for inside a house

Cheers!
Jake

Just be careful with this because shutter speed can have a direct effect on motion blur when shooting with flash if your ambient is high enough.

When shooting with a flash you’re getting two exposures, the ambient and the flash. If the ambient is not strong enough to expose your subject and your shutter speed is fast enough, then your subject should be sharp. However, if you have to use a shutter speed that’s slower or your ambient is enough to exposure your subject, there may be motion blur. Your subject will have one exposure that’s sharp from the flash and one that is blurred from the ambient.

Example:

The sharp portions in the two above photos are from the flash exposure stopping motion and the blur is from the ambient and a slow enough shutter speed. Most cameras and flashes should have a rear curtain sync but I don’t know if this works with a flash off camera. The way a flash works without it is the flash fires at the moment the shutter opens and then shutter does it’s thing. If you’re using a longer shutter speed, the subject will have a nice exposure then a trail leading away from it like it moved backwards. The rear shutter sync changes this so that the flash fires before the shutter closes all the way and makes it look the opposite, like you would imaging The Flash looking as he ran.

Good point!

Absolutely - I was going on the assumption that if she was shooting at 12,800, then ambient wasn't a huge concern!

In some sort of extreme case or coincidence, it may be, but it would probably be more important for a person to know about ambient “bleed” when they try to technique out a second time in a different situation and end up wondering my their picture is blurry even though they’re using a flash.

Yep, you're 100% correct, and I should have qualified my answer with respect to that. Thatnks for mentioning it.