Beginner wanting a GREAT DSLR camera to use for future business - Any suggestions???

[yooperGirl]

Why not buy a Canon 60D and then do one of those hip, new, super-cool Canon owner unboxing videos? Canon 60D Unboxing Video. cinema5D news

Thanks Derrell

 

[yooperGirl]

My future plans:
Family shoots, Birthday Parties, Family Gatherings, etc. Mostly outdoor shoots and landscape shots, but I do plan to do some indoor architectural shots as well. Other than that, sporting events for my children.

Reading that list I'm very tempted to say that you might want to start with a fullframe camera body rather than an entry level (which are all 1.6crop). This refers to the size of the sensor in the camera body, with fullframe being the same size as a regular 35mm film.

The importance of this is that with a fullframe sensor you get improved ISOs for low light work and natural light work - but also the larger sensor means that you get both a larger frame of view (things are less "zoomed in") and also you get increased blur of background areas.

A lot of this is very vague unless you get experience (this is the tricky bit making the right choices requires experience that often people don't have when the start), but suffice to say that whilst there is no problem with using a 1.6 crop body for those areas of interest the preferred by most is a fullframe camera body (as far as DSLRs are concerned - those that really go higher up use medium and large formate which get very expensive very quickly).

For canon the cheapest fullframe you can get is a 5D (either second hand or reconditioned since this line is now discontinued) and of course you'll need to pair it with some good lenses depending upon you remaining budget. This choice of fullframe or 1.6 crop is where I shift away from the general "get good lenses first and then a good camera body" advice simply because it has a great impact upon how you work - working with the frame coverage of a 1.6 is very different to that of a fullframe camera body.

To: overread

Thank you so much for a great reply and for being friendly
I appreciate your input more than you know and THANK YOU for taking the time to help me out I will take all of your advice

 

[table1349]

To: gryphonslair99

If you are referring to me, I have one question for you.

Did YOU start at the TOP?
Everyone has to start somewhere. I didn't say I wanted to make a business of this overnight. I said "Future" which is vague, but it is in my future whether near or far future, it is something I have always dreamed of doing. Way to encourage someone!

No I started in a photographers studio lugging lights, holding reflectors, changing sets and watching and learning. When I showed the owner of the studio that I was serious about my interest in photography he began to talk to me while he was shooting, explaining lighting, lenses etc.

I started by reading about photography, the basics, things like aperture, shutter speed, ASA (film days) and how they worked together. Great thing about being a freshman in high school, no body checked out the photography books much.

I started by mixing chemicals in a darkroom, being taught how to process film, how to make positives from negatives and always, how to clean up when we were done. I started working a lot after school and on weekends because photographers that want to make a living work when their clients want/need them and working for a professional photographer meant being that gofer on his time not mine.

I started with a rangefinder until I got my feet on the ground and with what all I had learned I bought a used Nikon F and some good glass. I then added a used F2 body to my gear always buying the best glass I could afford and learning to get around the limitations when I didn't have the money for the glass I wanted to add. Above all I put in the time, effort, and sweat that it took to get to the point where I thought I might be able to do something with this. A lot of that sweat had nothing to do directly with holding a camera, for there is a whole lot more to being a successful professional photographer than being behind a camera.

You want encouragement, what I would encourage you to do is to set the dream down for a while and educate yourself about photography. Not picture taking with a P&S but photography as a whole. That includes gear. If you had a basic understanding of gear you would know that bodies come and go. Good glass will last a lifetime. I would rather shoot a XTi with L glass attached than a 1Ds MkIII with a EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 on the front.

I would encourage you to sharpen your math and physics skills. The foundation of photography is math and physics. That way when you get into an unfamiliar situation you will have the foundation to be able to figure out what to do.

I would encourage you to take business classes. Successful photographers that are able to make a living from photography spend only about 1/3 of their time actually behind the camera. If you don't have business sense to go with the photography you are doomed to fail.

I would encourage you to learn about starting a business, from getting business loans, insurance, taxes, etc. to how to develop a business plan and where you can go to get the financing you need.

I would encourage you to also learn about the human side of starting and running your own business such as this. "Family shoots, Birthday Parties, Family Gatherings, etc. Mostly outdoor shoots and landscape shots" do not for most photographers pay the bills. There are a few that can, but they are rare.

There are two basic venues in photography that pay the bills, commercial work and weddings. It usually starts with weddings. Funny thing about weddings they just never seem to happen in the middle of the week when the kids are at school. They happen on Friday nights and Saturdays for the most part. The same time that kids play a lot of their sports. You will have to decide, food on the table or shot the kids playing sports.

I would encourage you to make sure you have other skills to fall back on. Photographers are a dime a dozen these days. The ones with the most talent and business skills are the ones making a living at it, the others are making some money from it when they are not working their main job.

I would encourage you to develop your communication skills.

"Any suggestions on a GREAT DSLR camera for a determined beginner wanting to start a (near)future photography business? Nikon or Canon? I heard the D700 is great, but I'd like HD. Ideas? Suggestions? Is it possible to buy used? If so, where? I am totally new to this and welcome your feedback Thanks"

With this as the whole questions then I will stick to my original answer and get a Hasselblad, H4D. There is not much better than this if you want the "Best Camera." Yes the H4D is a DSLR, just the top of the line medium format DSLR with a top of the line price.

Finally if you first post is indicative of your work ethic then I would encourage you to work on that aspect first and foremost. You asked a question that shows no serious thought and expected people to divine from that question what would be a "Great DSLR" that would be perfect for what you wanted. You get out of this world what you put into it.

If you do some of the things that I have suggested and do some serious research into all the things listed, then pick that dream up and look at it again. The shine may have faded a bit, but if it is a dream that you still believe you want then at least you will know how to accomplish that dream and when it has been accomplished. Good luck.

 

[Derrel]

Seriously original poster...work on your communications skills...and maybe become a bit more familiar with the way things work on this forum. People will take the time to help a newcomer who appears,and who communicates with a well formulated question or even a series of questions. Vague, often-repeated, empty, and unqualified questions will receive sardonic, sarcastic,flippant, incredulous, or throw-away answers--depending on who replies to said vague, often-repeated, empty, unqualified questions. S0, work on the internet forum communications skill set if you wish to be able to utilize the experience of a collective of older, more-experienced photographers as a resource.

 

[zoogirlbc]

No I started in a photographers studio lugging lights, holding reflectors, changing sets and watching and learning. When I showed the owner of the studio that I was serious about my interest in photography he began to talk to me while he was shooting, explaining lighting, lenses etc.

I started by reading about photography, the basics, things like aperture, shutter speed, ASA (film days) and how they worked together. Great thing about being a freshman in high school, no body checked out the photography books much.

I started by mixing chemicals in a darkroom, being taught how to process film, how to make positives from negatives and always, how to clean up when we were done. I started working a lot after school and on weekends because photographers that want to make a living work when their clients want/need them and working for a professional photographer meant being that gofer on his time not mine.

I started with a rangefinder until I got my feet on the ground and with what all I had learned I bought a used Nikon F and some good glass. I then added a used F2 body to my gear always buying the best glass I could afford and learning to get around the limitations when I didn't have the money for the glass I wanted to add. Above all I put in the time, effort, and sweat that it took to get to the point where I thought I might be able to do something with this. A lot of that sweat had nothing to do directly with holding a camera, for there is a whole lot more to being a successful professional photographer than being behind a camera.

Sounds like someone is kind of bitter that they had to bust their butt to become successful and have nice gear.

Not everyone goes the same route as you did to become a pro and run their own business. I taught myself my profession, made a couple bucks doing small jobs for people, took 2 short online courses and landed a full time job in that field only after having done it for a very short time and with very little training. Now I am not as good as the guys who went to school but I'm getting paid to do it and also being trained as I go.

Yooper, welcome to the forum. I hope you don't judge everyone on here by their rude sarcastic remarks. I am sure some people are getting tired of newbies who come and go with the same old q's but they forget that they were once new too.

If you have any questions about Nikon specifically, I own both the D90 and the D700 and have done extensive reading about both before buying them. I am no pro but I am willing to share what I've learned with you.

 

[12sndsgood]

although gryphonslair99's post had a bit of sarcasm to it, it had allot of helpful information in it that i don't think allot of people really put thought into when they start taking a few pics and then decide they want to make it a profession.

 

[manaheim]

And now we come to the part of the thread where someone who had it easier accuses someone else of being bitter.

Very useful and productive.

 

[yooperGirl]

Private Message to yooperGirl from Derrel:

"The reply you received here is worth a re-post. Agreed: work on your communications skills. A lot. Your entire attitude here has been one of "do ALL my research for me while I dick around all weekend and expect to come back to a passel full of helpful,smiling,friendly,complete,knowledgeable replies. TO a newbie who has contributed nothing, but wants and expects to be treated to the royal treatment,and have all of her research done for her. There is absolutely NO OTHER WAY to frame your attitude and manner here, OP. Yiou came here, asked, left, and expected everybody here to divine your interests,budget, needs, and plans, and then acted all smarmy when you were not catered to like a diva. Seriously...work on your communications skills..."

You already ate me up, spit me out and crushed me into the dirt, why send a private message when you've already been slamming me openly?
Ok, here's my repost:

Thank you sincerely to the few people on here that took me seriously and were kind and helpful.
OBVIOUSLY I am new here, but not uneducated. I already own my own business in another field of work and have been VERY successful at it. I have been to college and taken some business classes, and I have been doing bookkeeping for over 10 years. So, with that said, try not to make assumptions by someone's 1st post on here that, I agree, was a bit vague. My future plan is to do photography as a second job and because I ENJOY it. Notice: I ENJOY it!
Sooooo, have fun with your little forum that seems to occupy every spare minute of your time by attacking little fish(that have no communication skills) with your BIG shark attitude. Your posts say much more about you than your knowledge of photography. It spells out UNHAPPY in capital letters.

Again, thank you to those that gave kind, helpful replies which I will take to heart and sincerely appreciate. And to all of the others who were so unkind, I can now see why one poster said that people leave this site so soon after joining. Nice welcoming!

* YooperGirl (the noobie who got little help and major bashing) has PERMANETLY left this site.....

P.S. To Derrel, I didn't "Dick" around all weekend. I have a life!

 

[yooperGirl]

To: zoogirlbc

Sincere thanks for being welcoming and friendly I wish you all of the best!

 

[Dao]

I am new here, but not uneducated. I already own my own business in another field of work and have been VERY successful at it. I have been to college and taken some business classes, and I have been doing bookkeeping for over 10 years. So, with that said, try not to make assumptions by someone's 1st post on here that, I agree, was a bit vague. My future plan is to do photography as a second job and because I ENJOY it. Notice: I ENJOY it!
!

YooperGirl,

I believe if you include the above paragraph in the original post, things may end differently.


It is not possible for others to read your mind, and there are quit a lot of photography beginners started threads like your original post in here in the past. So I believe that's why other forum members react like that.


What they did .... were just being honest. I bet if you include more details and start a new thread, you will receive different kinds of responses.


Good luck. :hugs:

 

[inTempus]

YooperGril, it's in extremely bad taste to repost a private message publicly. It's called a "private message" for a reason.

As to your OP;

If we had a dollar for every time a new user came here claiming they want the best DSLR they can buy so that one day they can be a professional photographer we would be filthy rich. It's something that once you're around photography and the forms for a while you'll realize rubs many users the wrong way... especially professional photographers that deal with every Tom, Dick and Harry running out buying a Rebel and starting a "photography business" the next day. These folks often times lack anything resembling skill, talent, artistic aptitude, or even common sense. They undercut working pros that try to make a living producing quality work by flooding their local markets with low quality crap, and ultimately giving the whole profession a black eye.

It should take years before you're ready to even remotely consider opening a professional studio. You should find a mentor that's an accomplished photographer and work under them for a considerable amount of time learning how not only to take a high quality images under every imaginable scenario, but also more important skills such as posing, lighting, working with people, and photography business sense. Just because you like something doesn't mean you'll be good at it. I like photography too, but I also realize I suck at it most of the time. Just because you're a good accountant doesn't mean you'll be a good photographer.

I'm an accomplished executive with over 20 years in a highly competitive field. I've also owned my own advertising agency with over 25 employees and serviced major accounts in multiple verticals. Be that as it may, I still know that with my 2 years of photography experience I am no where near ready to take peoples money for photography services and feel good about it.

By the time I'm ready to do it, assuming I ever take that step, the camera bodies I have today will likely be obsolete. So asking what camera I should buy today so that I can be a professional photographer in 5 years is kind of a silly question. That is, unless you plan on doing what most working professionals despise... and that's buying some low-end kit and running out to take people's money for services rendered when you lack anything resembling skill and further damaging the local market for professionals.

The questions you should be asking are:

1) What camera would suit my needs as a novice yet grow with me as I learn more about photography?
2) What books should I read so that I can better understand exposure and composition?
3) Are there local meet-ups that I can attend to learn more?
4) What stuff do I need to buy to complete my photography kit as a novice?
5) How do I learn about post production?

...and the answers would look something like this:

1) Any modern DSLR from Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Sony, Olympus, etc. will suit your needs. Each has their strengths and weakness, it's a matter of learning about what interests you in photography and buying the system that best supports those needs. Also, ergonomics play a large role in how well someone works with a camera. Go to a local store and try different brands/models out. Shoot with them, go through their menus, have the salesman show you the ropes on the bodies. Remember, buy carefully because most people invest quite a bit of money in lenses and other accessories as their hobby grows. What you buy today will likely force you to stay with that particular brand for several years, if not forever. Switching brands after you have 5-10 lenses, flashes, filters, etc. can be a hassle not to mention you can lose quite a bit of money selling everything and buying new stuff. I prefer to stick with the big two, either Canon or Nikon.

2) There are a whole bunch of books out there which can help you get started. "Understanding Exposure" is a great first book. Also, Scott Kelby has a whole slew of great books for beginners.

3) Yes, check out Do something, Learn something, Share something, Change something - Meetup and find a local group or two. You can learn tons from working with other photographers. You can also find classes and get studio time through that site. It's a great resource.

4) Start off with a good body, decent kit lens like the 18-55 or 28-135, and get a flash. Learn to use those tools. Once you have a basic understanding of things, you'll discover where to go from there. What lenses you'll want next, what filters, what accessories... Hit the Canon and Nikon websites to see what's in your price range and Digital Cameras: Digital Photography Review, News, Reviews, Forums, FAQ for reliable reviews of the kits you're looking at.

5) Post production is just as important as capturing a quality image with the camera. It's also one of the most challenging parts of photography for many people, myself included. Buy books, find local Photoshop groups (meetup.com), take courses, and practice.

Hopefully that helps.

 

[KmH]

Is it possible to buy used? If so, where? I am totally new to this and welcome your feedback!

Thanks!

+1 to what tirediron said.

The "Is it possible to buy used? If so, where?" part made me spew Mountain Dew when I laughed out loud.

The OP's credit, she used capital letters and proper punctuation.

I wonder what this "determined beginer' will do when she needs to learn how to do strobed light photography, drag a shutter, and discovers she has to buy a license to use her HD, MPEG 4 files commercially.

To: kmh

Thanks so much for the encouragement (sarcasm) and friendly welcome to this site.
I didn't realize that photography world had so many rude people in it. Thanks.

 

[Derrel]

Yooper Girl.
As InTempus pointed out, it is considered bad form to post a Private Message. I was trying to spare you the public humiliation of seeing my comments in open forum. A couple of people here have tried to give you some advice, and your attitude toward them has been very,very dismissive. I think Gryphonslair and InTempus are making a very concerted effort to help you, despite the way you burst on the scene a few days ago,expecting a bushel full of wonderful, happy, cheerful replies to your rather vague question. I hope by the time you have 25 replies under your belt, that you get a better grasp on the way internet forums actually work. Best of luck to you in the photography business, which is mostly a person-to-person kinda' business.

 

[table1349]

YooperGril, it's in extremely bad taste to repost a private message publicly. It's called a "private message" for a reason.

As to your OP;

If we had a dollar for every time a new user came here claiming they want the best DSLR they can buy so that one day they can be a professional photographer we would be filthy rich.

Yeah so true, and my big ol'e fat butt would be naked on a private beach on my own personal island in the South seas some where sipping on some fruity drink with my share of the money. No umbrella on the drink.:mrgreen::greenpbl::mrgreen:


Now try and get a good nights sleep with that picture burnt in your brain!:lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[manaheim]

My god, people.

The only thing more common than noobs posting messages like this is, a horde of people dog-piling on the poster and beating them bloody with their own various issues and insecurities.

You'd think that those of you who are sick of this stuff would realize that trying to beat some random person on the internet into submission is about as productive as shouting at the rain and just kinda move on.

There's plenty of people on this thread with thousands of posts here. We all know perfectly well that no matter how many of us think that any given inexperienced person shouldn't be doing this or that... that they do... and that some of them actually succeed at it. Doesn't seem right, but it's reality. May as well express your concerns, but good lord... call it quits at some point, ya?