Beginner wanting a GREAT DSLR camera to use for future business - Any suggestions???

[MattxMosh]

You only need one thing to be pro.

"

skills"

 

[12sndsgood]

My god, people.

The only thing more common than noobs posting messages like this is, a horde of people dog-piling on the poster and beating them bloody with their own various issues and insecurities.

You'd think that those of you who are sick of this stuff would realize that trying to beat some random person on the internet into submission is about as productive as shouting at the rain and just kinda move on.

There's plenty of people on this thread with thousands of posts here. We all know perfectly well that no matter how many of us think that any given inexperienced person shouldn't be doing this or that... that they do... and that some of them actually succeed at it. Doesn't seem right, but it's reality. May as well express your concerns, but good lord... call it quits at some point, ya?

Good point. If the type of question asked by the original poster offends anyone you can always just ignore it and move on. If your tired of answering the same question by noobs then don't, its quite simple and doesnt require allot of effort.

 

[Derrel]

My god, people.

The only thing more common than noobs posting messages like this is, a horde of people dog-piling on the poster and beating them bloody with their own various issues and insecurities.

You'd think that those of you who are sick of this stuff would realize that trying to beat some random person on the internet into submission is about as productive as shouting at the rain and just kinda move on.

There's plenty of people on this thread with thousands of posts here. We all know perfectly well that no matter how many of us think that any given inexperienced person shouldn't be doing this or that... that they do... and that some of them actually succeed at it. Doesn't seem right, but it's reality. May as well express your concerns, but good lord... call it quits at some point, ya?

Thank you for saving our collective souls from a life-long period of roaming Internet Forum Purgatory and wondering , "I wonder what ever happened to what's her name?". You are our savior! Without you, we would all be lesser men. Thank you! Thank you! We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

 

[inTempus]

 

[manaheim]

I evidently didn't get the joke. I must have my Derrel Sarcasm filter turned up too high.

 

[Mike_E]

OK, so who won?

 

[tirediron]

OK, so who won?

Not sure; I lost count, but this is the best train-wreck we've had here in a while!

 

[pgriz]

Laughs aside, the request from a newbie to help them pick the equipment is a very common one. We tend to be a little rough, forgetting, perhaps, that it takes a certain amount of knowledge just to frame the right question. The usual answer to that type of question is “it depends”. Taking newbies to task for not doing the research (also known as googling&#8230 isn’t always fair as we all know that the internet, wonderful as it is, has as much mis-information as it does information, and there are few pointers on how to figure out which is which.

Surely, with a group having the wealth of talent and experience as this one has (and no, I’m not being sarcastic), can organize the relevant answers into a number of FAQ sections, that would be referenced whenever these kind of questions come up. This will add value to the forum, and also allow newbies to feel more welcome to participate if they are not being judged. I am a beginner of 40+ years of experience, and I find that the more I know, the more I am aware of my remaining ignorance. Some of my best learning experiences happened when I was mentoring new photographers – their naïve questions caused me to think hard about what I had assumed or taken as gospel. Those of you with young children often participate in the wonder of discovering the world all over again through their eyes – and it is magic. So let us also benefit from some of these questions – maybe some of our cherished “truths” deserve to be re-examined.

 

[manaheim]

Good idea but I believe TPF has some kind of no-FAQ policy.

What we really need here is some kind of BNGO card for TPF. Everyone gets a random card sorted by the topic mentioned and you have to hit it like 20x to put a counter on that spot.

I give us about 40 minutes before someone gets a BINGO.

 

[table1349]

You mean these frequently asked questions? The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - FAQ

 

[manaheim]

You mean these frequently asked questions? The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - FAQ

Those are kinda different than the ones I was thinking...

Q: What kind of camera should I buy?
Q: What makes a professional? (eek!)
Q: Should I upgrade my lens or my camera?
Q: Why is color correction important?
Q: How many megapixels do I need?
Q: Why does red make it go FFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAASTAAAAAAH?

 

[Overread]

You mean these frequently asked questions? The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - FAQ

Those are kinda different than the ones I was thinking...

Q: What kind of camera should I buy?
Q: What makes a professional? (eek!)
Q: Should I upgrade my lens or my camera?
Q: Why is color correction important?
Q: How many megapixels do I need?
Q: Why does red make it go FFFFFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAASTAAAAAAH?

The problem is not just making the FAQ but keeping it current - some such as which camera should I get require regular impartial updating with newer models and such.

Also da evil pointy elves gots da new toyz! :mrgreen:

 

[Derrel]

Laughs aside, the request from a newbie to help them pick the equipment is a very common one. We tend to be a little rough, forgetting, perhaps, that it takes a certain amount of knowledge just to frame the right question. The usual answer to that type of question is “it depends”. Taking newbies to task for not doing the research (also known as googling…) isn’t always fair as we all know that the internet, wonderful as it is, has as much mis-information as it does information, and there are few pointers on how to figure out which is which.

Surely, with a group having the wealth of talent and experience as this one has (and no, I’m not being sarcastic), can organize the relevant answers into a number of FAQ sections, that would be referenced whenever these kind of questions come up. This will add value to the forum, and also allow newbies to feel more welcome to participate if they are not being judged. I am a beginner of 40+ years of experience, and I find that the more I know, the more I am aware of my remaining ignorance. Some of my best learning experiences happened when I was mentoring new photographers – their naïve questions caused me to think hard about what I had assumed or taken as gospel. Those of you with young children often participate in the wonder of discovering the world all over again through their eyes – and it is magic. So let us also benefit from some of these questions – maybe some of our cherished “truths” deserve to be re-examined.

Who remembers the "old days" on the Internet, WWW, message boards, Usenet photography groups,etc etc? I do. There used to be a very common Netiquette FAQ,on every board or group, that admonished newbies to more or less, "hang out a while, and see how things are done, and do a search of the forum, before posting a new question." The emphasis was on "hanging out" or lurking for at least a little tiny while, to see how things were done, and only then to begin to participate. In other words, get your feet wet a little, get at least some semblance of the feel for the partiocular forum, and only then, begin to participate.

Does anybody recall those days, and the word "Netiquette"? This thread is a prime example of a newcomer coming in, asking a poorly framed, vague question, and one which had been asked and answered maybe 100 times, and then getting all "pi$$y" because she was not catered to like a diva. I am sorry if that analysis of the situation puts anybody off, but it is absolutely the way I see this situation. The newcomer's question was met with a general lack of enthusiasm, ridicule, sarcasm, and jokes, by multiple people because, surprise,surprise, this forum,like ALL forums, has expected standards of behavior, and timelines for replies...

Now, had yooper girl had hung around long enough to exercise common Netiquette before having posted her OP, she would have realized this is not a dead board; when a question is asked it gets almost immediate response. Posing a question here and then disappearing for two days and then returning with smart-aleck comments after having violated the norms of this forum was, well,let's just say it demonstrated a lack of respect and familiarity with this entire board's normal day-to-day speed, and a lack of familiarity and respect for the several people that provide most of the C&C, content, analysis, commentary,humor, plain answers to vanilla questions, and in-depth answers to those harder questions to posters and questioners who show they want to GIVE a little something in exchange for having others do research and writing for their benefit. Give a little and get a lot in return. Good deal, no? Give almost nothing,and expect the world? Not a good deal.

You know, coming in and talking smack to tirediron and KmH and gryphonslair99 earns zero points in my book--those three people consistently do maybe 20 percent of the total heavy lifting here in TPF...

 

[Overread]

The newcomer's question was met with a general lack of enthusiasm, ridicule, sarcasm, and jokes, by multiple people because, surprise,surprise, this forum,like ALL forums, has expected standards of behavior, and timelines for replies...

Etiquette works both ways and many would say that one should always aim to lead by example. If sarcasm and ridicule are part of the norm greeting then one could say the idea of lurking is flawed from the start because it would only induce more of such behaviour.

Often we encounter people who ask the wrong questions or who consider points incorrectly or from the wrong angle and replies like "google it" "search for it" are not going to help them because they are already looking the wrong way. Sometimes one has to exercise either silence or patience when dealing with others since how you treat others is going to directly affect how they reply. Put them on the defensive first with an assault and things tend to go downhill fast and things quickly become about the score and not about the content.

Generally speaking I'd like it if more people would either turn to help someone - either try to direct them toward the right questions to consider or toward the right answers - or if they feel they can't be bothered with "another mum with a camera" type thread then just put on a new music track and walk away from the thread. I fail to understand this compulsion some have to be horribly derisory toward strangers.

 

[manaheim]

For the record, I wasn't "talking smack" to any of those souls. They're all good guys in my book.

My point was only that it's probably better to just blow the post off entirely than to put on the display that we did here. Or just give some fairly vague answer... or one similar to what you said there with "hang out a while, do a search, etc." We didn't exactly do that, though... certainly not at first.

Mind you, I don't exactly blame anyone- the longer you are on here the more you are prone to having a day of snarky responses. It's why I'm not on here as much and why I periodically just phase out entirely for a while.

*shrug*