Beware of Chinese-Sold products.

[tirediron]

...The junk is cheaper, the relatively good stuff is cheaper, and this has more to do with labor cost than quality...

Hmmm... not sure I agree; labour costs are definitely a major factor but (and I agree completely that these parts are being done on automated equipment, regardless of where they're produced) I think production costs (tooling, equipment, etc) are likely to be a more significant factor than labour costs simply because less manpower is used as a result of automation.

 

[Josh66]

I don't know... Personally, I think trade with other countries is a good thing, and we shouldn't be so isolated.

The problem, I think, is some companies exploiting the low labor costs in developing countries. I don't have a problem with those people making the stuff that we buy, but I do think that they should get a fair wage for it. I think that corporate greed is getting out of hand, and this is just a symptom of it.

I would say more, but it would probably be too political. I've probably already said too much...

 

[sovietdoc]

Canon's lens cap for my 70-200 costs over 20 bucks and can't be taken off while having the hood on.

"Canon" lens cap I got from ebay that has arriveed a few days later from China cost me $3 and it could be taken off easily while the hood was on. It also came with a cord so I could attach it to my lens and let it hang there and it came with a rubber hot shoe cover for extreme weather.

Hmm?

 

[pixmedic2 1]

Personally, I avoid buying anything that has to be shipped from overseas. Not because of any country in particular, and not because of any fear of quality control or counterfeiting issues...My issue is a little more base. Shipping can take weeks depending on where its coming from. when it does get here, if there is any problems with whatever I ordered (quality, quantity, or the wrong item) my biggest fear is that i will have little to no recourse. Even if the company is willing to take it back, or replace it, it will take weeks to send it back, and then weeks to get the new one. I might sound a little paranoid about it, and I might pay a little more for something shipped from a company here in america, but I like at least having the illusion that I can get things taken care of in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Josh66]

That is the reason the jobs have left our country because we refuse to work for less. So instead of paying us more the jobs are given to other countries that will do it for cheap at the cost of no insurance, health codes, lower wage, etc.

Why should we work for less?

Why should we give up our benefits?


The problem is that large companies know that they can have a product made somewhere else without having to pay for employee benefits, or a good wage.

Quality usually does suffer as a result. We've grown accustomed to accepting the bare minimum quality level.


I was recently working on some "American" aircraft (I'm an aircraft mechanic) made in Mexico. The manufacturer shut down three plants (in the United States) and moved them to Mexico for the lower labor costs... The quality of work from the factory was truly bad. The worst I have ever seen. I am not exaggerating... (I have worked on aircraft made in a multitude of different countries, including China (though mostly North America and Europe). They were all more or less the same quality level as American aircraft. These "Hecho en Mexico" aircraft were truly inferior. I can only assume it is due to a lack of training. I know a lot of Mexicans, and they are more than capable of quality work - I am not saying that anything made in Mexico or by Mexicans is inferior. Hand some village kid a rivet gun and drill with no training though ... I would not want to fly on that airplane... That is the quality of work I saw.)

These were brand new airplanes, and they had more problems than most 50 year old aircraft I have worked on.

There wasn't really anything so bad that it would make the plane fall out of the sky, but it was just all-around substandard work. Skilled labor ain't cheap... Would you rather fly on a plane made by a skilled and well compensated workforce, or one made by untrained people working for pennies?

They decided that the bare minimum acceptable quality level was good enough, and they could get that for a lot less in Mexico...



I have no problem at all with Mexicans building airplanes - but at least train them properly and give them a wage they can support their family on.

 

[Dillard]

This completely blows my mind. We are all educated enough to decide and gamble on a cheaper alternative. If it was an American brand extension tube, you wouldn't post to stop the purchase of American goods. You can't categorize all Chinese products as cheaply constructed and fake. And the economy spill is complete crap. Do you only purchase American grown crops? Do you live a completely Americanized life and boycott all foreign goods? Seriously, get real...

 

[unpopular]

...The junk is cheaper, the relatively good stuff is cheaper, and this has more to do with labor cost than quality...

Hmmm... not sure I agree; labour costs are definitely a major factor but (and I agree completely that these parts are being done on automated equipment, regardless of where they're produced) I think production costs (tooling, equipment, etc) are likely to be a more significant factor than labour costs simply because less manpower is used as a result of automation.

My bigger point here is just that, regardless of why, a few USD goes a really LONG way in China. If you buy the cheapest thing you can find, they're going to be unimaginably bad, but if you spend only a few bucks more you'll still be significantly less than the name brand option, but aproaching name brand quality.

The two economies are just very different, which makes price comparisons difficult.

 

[Joshonator]

I've bought some good stuff from china (lens caps, adapters, ect.) but my advice is don't their camera bags the zipper broke off the first time I opened the bag. If it says it's genuine and it's not just file a complaint and you'll get your money back (I got a free 32gb memory card in this manner It was supposed to be class 10 but was really only class 3).

 

[2WheelPhoto]

To the uneducated few....

Everything is made in China, either directly or indirectly. I am sure if the lens/camera is not "made" in China the parts are and it is "assembled" elsewhere (e.g. Japan). If that is not the case, then the machine which makes the parts is probably made in China, if that is not the case then the machine that made the machine... you could go on forever. Welcome to a global economy, where people choose the cheapest because that is what capitalism is.

To the person who said that they would rather not give China their dollars, China is buying billions of dollars worth of government bonds, using money which it gets from trading with the world. Money goes both ways, there is not a big plug hole where it all disappears.

Whilst I am not saying that the conditions in the Chinese factories are good, they are much better than working in agriculture, people flock to the cities to get a job at the big companies like Foxconn and from what I have read recently the suicide rate is much lower at places like Foxconn. This does not stop the media from reporting about how western companies are causing the deaths, even though it is lower than the Chinese national average. If you studied history you would know how many people had similar conditions during the industrial revolution in the west, this is the same thing but happening later. Whilst it is not right it is pot calling kettle black, we cannot honestly say "you must follow our developed principles, rules, safety standards and copyrights etc., whilst having a much lower GDP than us", it just does not work because change is gradual.

I live in Hong Kong and even here I have seen some blatant rip-offs (e.g. JCB machinery which is identical to the real thing, minus the branding), it shows that the system is broken. Today I saw how Apple has secured a patent on a wedge shape for their iPad, since when should geometric shapes be up for patenting? (Source: Apple's New MacBook Air Wedge Design Patent Could Destroy Ultrabooks. Sigh.) The sooner people share things for the common good the better, it would be in the consumers and public's interest for all patents regarding essential things to be cost shared between the major companies, this does not stop them innovating but the core of the product is cheaper and those savings are passed to us. If not, the length of a patent needs to be drastically reduced, so that the patent holder can make the profit for say 5 years and then it is shared on a cheap license to everyone else for a further 5 years before becoming free.

^^^^^that.

 

[EDL]

The argument on fair wage in foreign countries doesn't hold water. Why? Because you are basing that "fair wage" on OUR economy. What seems like pittance to you may, in fact, be very good wages there.

I have purchased a lot of Chinese stuff (who hasn't?) from cheap little things to tools and even some machinery. In most cases the quality was less than what you'd get with brand name (Harbor Freight anyone?). However, with that said, I also knew before hand what I was buying was not going to be the same quality as a good brand name and I was perfectly willing to accept that. In some cases the cheap Chinese tool, while not as "snazzy" as the brand name, has ended up lasting every bit as long as the brand name tool and functioned perfectly fine over it's life time (specifically the cheap $9.99 angle grinders from Harbor Freight). I've owned an expensive brand named grinder and it did not perform any better, nor last any longer.

Yeah, that's one specific, small example, but that means not everything from China is complete junk.

As for the "buy American", I do not subscribe to that mentality for two main reasons: I do not support labor unions. I have direct experience with one and never again will I support them. I do not subscribe to the mentality or exhorbitant wages for unskilled labor or forced contract requirements on local businesses. I don't believe just because something is "American made" it's top quality, and in most cases these items are expensive. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers, but Harley-Davidson is a fine example. American icon, yes, I understand that, but frankly they aren't the most reliable thing on the road....and they are very expensive.

I understand the basic business mentality of wanting to go overseas, they have to stay competitive with their product and they can't do that in some cases if they have high wage overhead and, one thing that hasn't been talked about, the highest corporate taxes in the world. Couple that with stock owners demanding higher margins and what are they to do?

I think this argument has a very American centric bent to it because we, as a country, all want the big $$$ but we don't want the competition that goes with it. Unfortunately, we've been a global economy for a long time now. Not everyone can be rich, not every employee can make $50 an hour or more and still keep our businesses afloat. In fact, something like 78% of our GDP is service based. All-in-all we really don't make anything anymore. Things might be completely different if we dominated the quality market on a variety of products, but that's just no longer the case.

 

[Josh66]

I don't think anyone said that "Made in America" = Top Quality. And $50/hr as an average wage is a joke. Most people would love to make half of that.

 

[unpopular]

What gets me is that the OP bought a "genuine" product from a country with a well known counterfeit industry at a rediculously low price, and is now complaining because it turned out to be a fake. hmmmmm.

 

[Josh66]

EDL, I am a union member (UAW, Local 967), so I guess I'm biased. I do enjoy good wages and good benefits... Too many people don't.

I agree that what the Chinese peasants working in the factories making iPods and such consider to be a good wage is nothing compared to what we would consider a good wage - but I think that everybody can agree that it isn't a fair wage. Their living conditions suck. If they earned a wage (whatever that would be in their economy) that would allow them to care for their family the same way that our wages allow us to, I think the current situation would be a lot different.

I don't see how anyone can see it as anything but exploitation. IMO, it should be illegal. It's practically slavery... They work long hours in **** conditions for a **** wage with no benefits.

I read an article a while ago that said something about certain jobs moving back to the United States, because the Chinese were starting to organize and form Unions! They realized that they were getting ****ed. They started demanding equality, and multi-billion dollar corporations pulled up stakes and moved operations back to the States. (I'm sure you'll want links - the articles I read were in print, not sure if I'll be able to find a copy on-line...)

 

[mjhoward]

My bigger point here is just that, regardless of why, a few USD goes a really LONG way in China.

Unfortunately with the way things are going, this will likely change. America, as a whole, is becoming a nation of consumers rather than producers.

Plus, i'm pretty sure all the factory worker is actually doing ins placing the stock into a machine. Perhaps some of the lathes in Chinese factories aren't terribly sophisticated by comparison, but I am sure that they are computerized and automated.

I would highly doubt it. At Foxconn, NOTHING, as of the beginning of this year, is automated. I would assume most factories in China are that way. Robots cost more than labor.

 

[djacobox372]

That's capitalism. If American companies can't compete, why should I spend higher prices?

Unethical labor practices, perhaps. But Americans also have lifestyle demands which make it very hard to remain competitive.

Yeah, how dare people expect a comfortable and rewarding life.

Now tell this lazy bum to get back to work! I need more cheap electronics: