BJP "Hasselblad defends Lunar's concept and pricing"

[pixmedic1 1]

Um.. ok...

What does being able to afford the camera have to do with anything being discussed?

:er:

I assumed you were referring to my comment and my apparent ignorance of the S2. incorrect?

 

[Derrel]

The way *I* see it, I'd give my left *** for a Leica S2 system and full compliment of lenses...but I wouldn't give two %%%+s for this bastard Sony/Hassy "thing" they plan on trying to pass off...

 

[tirediron]

The way *I* see it, I'd give my left *** for a Leica S2 system and full compliment of lenses...but I wouldn't give two %%%+s for this bastard Sony/Hassy "thing" they plan on trying to pass off...

I hate to say this.. (and I'll deny it in court, even under oath), but I am 100% in agreement with Derrel on this!

 

[unpopular]

Hell. I'd like to have an NEX-7, even. But i'm not going to pay 6K for one. I'm not going to pay 6K for ANY APS-C body, no matter how much Swedish carbon went into it.

If it were a 35mm format based around the NEX mount, sure, but a $1200 camera in a $5000 dress? No way - even if it's wearing a wonderbra underneath.

 

[mjhoward]

A solid block of Aluminum large enough to cover the full size of the Hassy - about $30 USD RETAIL: McMaster-Carr

They probably get this at a fraction of the cost buying in bulk wholesale. Machining doesn't cost that much, especially when you own and operate the machine and are churning out many of these.

 

[tirediron]

Hell. I'd like to have an NEX-7, even. But i'm not going to pay 6K for one. I'm not going to pay 6K for ANY APS-C body, no matter how much Swedish carbon went into it.

If it were a 35mm format based around the NEX mount, sure, but a $1200 camera in a $5000 dress? No way - even if it's wearing a wonderbra underneath.

 

[tirediron]

A solid block of Aluminum large enough to cover the full size of the Hassy - about $30 USD RETAIL: McMaster-Carr

They probably get this at a fraction of the cost buying in bulk wholesale. Machining doesn't cost that much, especially when you own and operate the machine and are churning out many of these.

Well... I'm not sure it's quite that simple. Your link goes to plain old 6061; basically the vanilla of aluminum. I suspect that Hasselblad is probably using something a little more exotic. As well, there's the cost of the CNC machine to do the work, probably somewhere between $300 - 500K, and the operator at $75/hr+. Amortizing that out over the number of sales projected for a three year period, I can see where they get their price.

 

[Forkie]

I actually love the Lunar's whacky design. What I can't get my head around is where they're going to find customers, particularly the "larger, younger audience" they mention as their targets, who will pay $5000 for what is essentially a point and shoot.

 

[BlairWright]

Aw, come on, nobody's speaking up to defend poor Frankenstein? Errr....I mean, "Nobody's speaking up to defend this beautiful creation?" I thought it was amusing that an actual Hasselblad representative stated that milling the body costs 300 Euro...and if the same body were made of plastic, that it would cost 35 cents...riiiiiiiight.....'cause we all know that 41 seconds of C&C milling machine time and a block of aluminum costs like, over 300 Euro....lol...

I laughed when I saw them try to justify the price by saying they wrapped a 300Euro Aluminum body around NEX Internals. That's like putting a Ferrari body on a VW bug and charging 200 grand for it.

This is a total joke and will tarnish their stellar reputation

 

[Helen B]

Sony - not exactly a brand known for their professional gear.

That is more about consumer perception than reality, isn't it? Sony is very well known for their professional gear, just not by consumers who probably don't know it exists. Technically the collaboration looks like a very sound move by Hasselblad. The E-mount doesn't seem like a bad choice either. It is very versatile, has a short flange focal distance, and it will get a better range of native lenses in the future.

 

[unpopular]

Sony - not exactly a brand known for their professional gear.

That is more about consumer perception than reality, isn't it? Sony is very well known for their professional gear, just not by consumers who probably don't know it exists.

Yes, certainly their video equipment is more than capable, and their new cinema cameras will likely be very successful. Photographers, however, really aren't as convinced - though I do agree that the image quality is more than there for Sony.

Regardless, Sony is focussing on the upper end of the consumer photo market, and perception is everything.

Technically the collaboration looks like a very sound move by Hasselblad. The E-mount doesn't seem like a bad choice either. It is very versatile, has a short flange focal distance, and it will get a better range of native lenses in the future.

Being a Sony user myself, I definitely look forward to Hasselblad E mount lenses to put on an inexpensive Sony body. That seems to be an element in this arrangement that people aren't talking about - with Hasselblad adopting the A and E mount, it means more high quality lenses for Sony users.

It may be possible that this is the real product Hasselblad is selling - after all, you make more money selling beer than glasses.

 

[mjhoward]

A solid block of Aluminum large enough to cover the full size of the Hassy - about $30 USD RETAIL: McMaster-Carr

They probably get this at a fraction of the cost buying in bulk wholesale. Machining doesn't cost that much, especially when you own and operate the machine and are churning out many of these.

Well... I'm not sure it's quite that simple. Your link goes to plain old 6061; basically the vanilla of aluminum. I suspect that Hasselblad is probably using something a little more exotic. As well, there's the cost of the CNC machine to do the work, probably somewhere between $300 - 500K, and the operator at $75/hr+. Amortizing that out over the number of sales projected for a three year period, I can see where they get their price.

You can get a 5 Axis HAAS for about $100k new and even it is way oversized for the parts that will be coming out. Also, don't believe they bought a mill specifically for this, I'm sure they've had one for a while now. And operator costs? I'm not sure they're quite that high, or even close anymore. The bulk of the cost is in programming and you only have to do that once. Even now, a lot of machines will simply take the .stl file from CAD and make the program FOR YOU. after that, an unskilled person can swap out the cut product with a new solid block and hit the "go" button.

 

[tirediron]

A solid block of Aluminum large enough to cover the full size of the Hassy - about $30 USD RETAIL: McMaster-Carr

They probably get this at a fraction of the cost buying in bulk wholesale. Machining doesn't cost that much, especially when you own and operate the machine and are churning out many of these.

Well... I'm not sure it's quite that simple. Your link goes to plain old 6061; basically the vanilla of aluminum. I suspect that Hasselblad is probably using something a little more exotic. As well, there's the cost of the CNC machine to do the work, probably somewhere between $300 - 500K, and the operator at $75/hr+. Amortizing that out over the number of sales projected for a three year period, I can see where they get their price.

You can get a 5 Axis HAAS for about $100k new and even it is way oversized for the parts that will be coming out. Also, don't believe they bought a mill specifically for this, I'm sure they've had one for a while now. And operator costs? I'm not sure they're quite that high, or even close anymore. The bulk of the cost is in programming and you only have to do that once. Even now, a lot of machines will simply take the .stl file from CAD and make the program FOR YOU. after that, an unskilled person can swap out the cut product with a new solid block and hit the "go" button.

You're thinking like someone used to North American manufacturing standards. They may be going off in to uncharted territory, but we are still talking about Hasselblad. They don't skimp on anything and I doubt very much they would use unskilled labour anywhere. Of course this is all speculation, but since this is such a radical departure from anything they have made previously, I would be surprised if they didn't set up a whole new line for it.

 

[Buckster]

Well... I'm not sure it's quite that simple. Your link goes to plain old 6061; basically the vanilla of aluminum. I suspect that Hasselblad is probably using something a little more exotic. As well, there's the cost of the CNC machine to do the work, probably somewhere between $300 - 500K, and the operator at $75/hr+. Amortizing that out over the number of sales projected for a three year period, I can see where they get their price.

You can get a 5 Axis HAAS for about $100k new and even it is way oversized for the parts that will be coming out. Also, don't believe they bought a mill specifically for this, I'm sure they've had one for a while now. And operator costs? I'm not sure they're quite that high, or even close anymore. The bulk of the cost is in programming and you only have to do that once. Even now, a lot of machines will simply take the .stl file from CAD and make the program FOR YOU. after that, an unskilled person can swap out the cut product with a new solid block and hit the "go" button.

You're thinking like someone used to North American manufacturing standards. They may be going off in to uncharted territory, but we are still talking about Hasselblad. They don't skimp on anything and I doubt very much they would use unskilled labour anywhere. Of course this is all speculation, but since this is such a radical departure from anything they have made previously, I would be surprised if they didn't set up a whole new line for it.

It's still ridiculous to waste, spend or charge money needlessly.

Having a $75 per hour janitor in a silk suit mopping and sweeping up the lobby in the name of "We're Hasselblad" instead of a $12.50 per hour janitor is just dumb and wasteful. Like any other manufacturer, they have a responsibility to their customers to NOT gouge them needlessly, and part of that is making monetarily sound decisions about manufacturing processes that can then be passed along to the customer. It's one thing to use the best you can, but it's a whole 'nuther thing to go far, FAR beyond that without a solid reason for it. Putting the equivalent of the silk-suited janitor in a camera just because you can isn't just costly; It's ridiculous and unwarranted.

I was born and raised in the Detroit area. Having spent a bit of time in manufacturing metal and plastic parts myself early in my adult life, and being surrounded by friends and family members my whole life who've been in manufacturing of metal and plastic parts their entire lives, the whole thing looks like a load of bull to me; Nothing but lame excuses, actually.

It doesn't cost very much to set up a machine to do any common task like this. Costs are high when you have to design a machine from scratch to do something that's never been done before, but this ain't anywhere near that category of manufacturing.

No way I'm buying into that line of excuses.

As to the design of the thing, it looks like any other common POS point and shoot with interchangeable lenses. Where's the distinctive and classy design we've come to expect from a Hassy?

Again, no way I'm buying into any excuses made for that mistake.

It could even be the top of the line, performance-wise, at the moment, but that can't last with digital camera technology moving ever-forward, ever faster. Moore's law is at work because cameras are now directly tied to processing power, so the ability is getting more and better exponentially, not even linearly. So, like any other digital camera, it'll be getting long in the tooth 3-5 years from now. That said, even if it's super-aluminum-body out-lives the pyramids, WGAF?

No, I'm not buying into the "it'll last forever" mentality for any digital camera. Not even a Hassy.

Even if I hit the lotto for a hundred million dollars, and started buying very expensive things, some even eccentrically frivolous, this would NEVER get on the list.