Boxing/sports photography.......Low light.....Canon 1DX.....FUBAR !

[FCP]

I recently borrowed the Canon 1DX to test it. I specifically wanted to test it for and upcoming boxing event I was shooting. I've done a bit of research and most of my reading lead me to believe this was the go to camera for low light fast action sports photography.

I knew the event was an amateur event and that the venue had very poor light. I took several light readings with my meter from the middle of the ring. With boxing you need to shoot between 500 and 1000 speed or your wasting your time. 1000 is ideal. But, can I get there with this lighting situation was the question. I took several readings. ISO 3200, at 1000 was my first. My FStop reading on my meter was 1.0...Oh no, This no good. I'm shooting with 24-70 2.8. SEVERAL OTHER READINGS and I could not get above 250 unless I pushed the ISO to 10,000!

Everything I read also said that this camera performed remarkably well as high as 15,000 ISO. I ended up shooting the entire event (10 fights) at over 10,000 ISO just to get to 400 at 2.8. (NOT FAST ENOUGH!!) Historgram didn't mean much due to the fact that the ring matt was black, shorts were black, head gear were black, most of the fans wore black and the back walls were lite with xmas lights, house lighting were LED's. Some female fighters wore all black tops, shorts, and head gear. Mix this with a black matt and your practically shooting in the dark. In addition all the images looked fine in the cameras. I know this isn't a good measurement but the difference between camera monitor and computer are huge! I can't believe it.

End result. Crappy,noisy,underexposed images.... I don't know how to salvage the images or what to tell the client. I am disappointed with the hype of this camera and it's ISO capabilities.
I understand it has a lot to do with the venue and a lot out of it was out of my control but clients expect you know how to handle the situation. Lastly, I know most of the fighters, promoters and trainers and go to the same gym. They have expectations. I see these people daily. They may know the fight game but they don't understand some of the tech challenges of shooting. I am sure they got some good cell phone photos! I don' know how to handle it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. p.s....I did not get paid for the shoot. I did it as a favor.

 

[D-B-J]

You couldn't have used a faster lens? 1.2, 1.4? Can we see some of the images?


Jake

 

[FCP]

1.2, 1.4? I don't know of any zoom lens that shoots that wide open. You can't shoot with a fixed prime lens. Not boxing and kickboxing. It's dealing with the people who will be coming to me and dealing with the images that are mostly my concern right now. Trying to salvage some images in lightroom but it's not that great. I only need two or three good decent images from each fight.

 

[Mach0]

1.2, 1.4? I don't know of any zoom lens that shoots that wide open. You can't shoot with a fixed prime lens. Not boxing and kickboxing. It's dealing with the people who will be coming to me and dealing with the images that are mostly my concern right now. Trying to salvage some images in lightroom but it's not that great. I only need two or three good decent images from each fight.

Convert to black and white and embrace the noise.

 

[D-B-J]

1.2, 1.4? I don't know of any zoom lens that shoots that wide open. You can't shoot with a fixed prime lens. Not boxing and kickboxing. It's dealing with the people who will be coming to me and dealing with the images that are mostly my concern right now. Trying to salvage some images in lightroom but it's not that great. I only need two or three good decent images from each fight.

Convert to black and white and embrace the noise.

Such a simple, and yet sometimes super effective, remedy.

Jake

 

[Derrel]

You "can't shoot" with a prime lens, but you can shoot with a 24-70mm pokey f/2.8 zoom? You need a serious re-think. Between 24mm and 70mm are a few prime lengths....28mm...35mm...50mm. Pick ONE lens of high speed and shoot with it. CROP the images that are going to be used. F/2.8 is a "slow lens"...very,very slow, compared to a 35/1.4 or 50/1.4.

You only needed two or three good images from each fight. You could have made those with a 50.

 

[Mach0]

You "can't shoot" with a prime lens, but you can shoot with a 24-70mm pokey f/2.8 zoom? You need a serious re-think. Between 24mm and 70mm are a few prime lengths....28mm...35mm...50mm. Pick ONE lens of high speed and shoot with it. CROP the images that are going to be used. F/2.8 is a "slow lens"...very,very slow, compared to a 35/1.4 or 50/1.4. You only needed two or three good images from each fight. You could have made those with a 50.

I agree.

 

[table1349]

1.2, 1.4? I don't know of any zoom lens that shoots that wide open. You can't shoot with a fixed prime lens. Not boxing and kickboxing. It's dealing with the people who will be coming to me and dealing with the images that are mostly my concern right now. Trying to salvage some images in lightroom but it's not that great. I only need two or three good decent images from each fight.

Gosh, I have only been shooting sports for around 35 years now and typically 85% of all my shots are with prime lenses. An even larger proportion of the action shots are with primes. Perhaps that is why my collection of lenses only has 4 zooms total and over twice that are prime lenses. I have nothing slower than F2.8 and those for the most part are my 4 zooms, as well as my 300mm and 400mm. Everything else it faster glass.

As for the 1Dx. I use one as my primary body with a 1D MkIV as my secondary body. Both are more than up to the challange.

 

[FCP]

You "can't shoot" with a prime lens, but you can shoot with a 24-70mm pokey f/2.8 zoom? You need a serious re-think. Between 24mm and 70mm are a few prime lengths....28mm...35mm...50mm. Pick ONE lens of high speed and shoot with it. CROP the images that are going to be used. F/2.8 is a "slow lens"...very,very slow, compared to a 35/1.4 or 50/1.4.

You only needed two or three good images from each fight. You could have made those with a 50.

ok... what is 'pokey' 'serious rethink' ? Perhaps a 28 would have done the job but I don't have one. In addition you need to be able to shoot close and far in a seconds notice. A fight can go from a foot away to 10ft away in two seconds. Using a 50 or an 85 is like waiting for the perfect storm to happen. Your dealing with not just distance but refs in your way and fighters with there back to you. There are many things that need to take place in order for that perfect on or two shots with a 50 or 85. Plus, keep in mind that you can't move around. Your in one spot the whole fight. Try getting getting a face or glove in focus with a 1.4 when your dealing with head movement, body movement, gloves flying, leg kicks....not easy.

I understand that there are probably several things I could have done different. You come away with every shoot that way. The issue here is dealing with what I have and the people that have expectations. I tried to stress to difficult situation I was in.

 

[jaomul]

+1 on the primes. Boxing matches were photographed with much lesser iso abilities than the 1dx. Get a few and use the most appropriate for your position.

 

[pixmedic]

I don't shoot canon, BUT, I imagine if you had gone with a 50mm f/1.4 for the low light, the 1DX probably has good enough resolution to handle whatever cropping needed to be done. From everything I have heard, the 1DX is an amazing camera.

 

[FCP]

1.2, 1.4? I don't know of any zoom lens that shoots that wide open. You can't shoot with a fixed prime lens. Not boxing and kickboxing. It's dealing with the people who will be coming to me and dealing with the images that are mostly my concern right now. Trying to salvage some images in lightroom but it's not that great. I only need two or three good decent images from each fight.

Gosh, I have only been shooting sports for around 35 years now and typically 85% of all my shots are with prime lenses. An even larger proportion of the action shots are with primes. Perhaps that is why my collection of lenses only has 4 zooms total and over twice that are prime lenses. I have nothing slower than F2.8 and those for the most part are my 4 zooms, as well as my 300mm and 400mm. Everything else it faster glass.

As for the 1Dx. I use one as my primary body with a 1D MkIV as my secondary body. Both are more than up to the challange.

I don't know what your trying to say or if it helps me. Your not responding to my original. I don't know what sports you shoot and those 300 and 400 aren't zooms. They are telephoto. If I'm shooting football or basketball or tennis from across the court or field those are great and I have time to switch camera if the action comes my way. Have you shot boxing before? Maybe you can give me tips for the next fight. My post is about dealing with what I have. I couldn't shoot the entire ten fights with my 85 1.8. One side of the ring was darker then the other. My original light reading (with a meter) inside the ring (the brightest part) was 3200 ISO at 1000 speed and I got 1.0. What lens can you shoot with at 1.0 to get a decent exposure?

 

[robbins.photo]

1.2, 1.4? I don't know of any zoom lens that shoots that wide open. You can't shoot with a fixed prime lens. Not boxing and kickboxing. It's dealing with the people who will be coming to me and dealing with the images that are mostly my concern right now. Trying to salvage some images in lightroom but it's not that great. I only need two or three good decent images from each fight.

Gosh, I have only been shooting sports for around 35 years now and typically 85% of all my shots are with prime lenses. An even larger proportion of the action shots are with primes. Perhaps that is why my collection of lenses only has 4 zooms total and over twice that are prime lenses. I have nothing slower than F2.8 and those for the most part are my 4 zooms, as well as my 300mm and 400mm. Everything else it faster glass.

As for the 1Dx. I use one as my primary body with a 1D MkIV as my secondary body. Both are more than up to the challange.

I don't know what your trying to say or if it helps me. Your not responding to my original. I don't know what sports you shoot and those 300 and 400 aren't zooms. They are telephoto. If I'm shooting football or basketball or tennis from across the court or field those are great and I have time to switch camera if the action comes my way. Have you shot boxing before? Maybe you can give me tips for the next fight. My post is about dealing with what I have. I couldn't shoot the entire ten fights with my 85 1.8. One side of the ring was darker then the other. My original light reading (with a meter) inside the ring (the brightest part) was 3200 ISO at 1000 speed and I got 1.0. What lens can you shoot with at 1.0 to get a decent exposure?

Ok, step back for a second. First you went to an event with equipment you had not properly tested before hand to see if it would be able to keep up with the lighting conditions. Granted in the real world sometimes these things happen and you don't always get the chance to find out in advance if you have the equipment you need, however snapping at us is not going to fix the photos you took.

You stated a fairly ill-informed opinion about prime lenses - you don't really need a zoom (and a very limited zoom at that) when you can move around and then crop as needed after the fact. A faster prime would have been of much more benefit to you in this situation, something you might have discovered pre-shoot had you say come in and asked.

Now, as to fixing the images you did take, you do have some options. They are a little limited and it's doubtful that you are going to get amazing results, but you might be able to get to "livable" by using lightroom or something similar and some noise reduction and then using it to try and help fix the exposure issues. It won't be perfect but at least it's something.

 

[FCP]

I don't want to offend anyone here or get into arguments. I know there are faster lenses, I know there are wider lens's. I am not what one might consider an amateur. I don't typically do NOT shoot sports but I have a lot of knowledge.

I had very poor lighting and a lot of dark elements. I was in a fixed position with very fast moving action. Lighting was tiny LED spots. I already mentioned I took a light readings several times with my meter before the event started and couldn't even get to 1.5 or 1.8 and get a good enough shutter speed. Yes, I could have shot with a wider faster fixed lens and got a better exposure but I don't have a 28mm.

I am looking for responses regarding how I can deal with the clients and the images I have. NOT what I could have done better or different. I appreciate all the responses but I don't want there to be confusion.

 

[SCraig]

... End result. Crappy,noisy,underexposed images.... I don't know how to salvage the images or what to tell the client. I am disappointed with the hype of this camera and it's ISO capabilities.

I understand it has a lot to do with the venue and a lot out of it was out of my control but clients expect you know how to handle the situation. Lastly, I know most of the fighters, promoters and trainers and go to the same gym. They have expectations. I see these people daily. They may know the fight game but they don't understand some of the tech challenges of shooting. I am sure they got some good cell phone photos! I don' know how to handle it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. p.s....I did not get paid for the shoot. I did it as a favor.

Well, it seems to me that at this point you have exactly three options:
1. Choose the best of the bad, bring up the exposure in post processing, add a bunch of noise reduction, and apologize for the quality.

2. As mentioned, convert to black and white and let the noise emphasize the grittiness of the environment.

3. Tell them you got nothing because you underestimated the needs of the environment. Do NOT try and blame the venue or claim that things were out of your control. Had you been paid for this you would have been expected to control the environment and do what was necessary to ENSURE that the photographs were high-quality images. Clients pay for results, not excuses.

Also use this as the learning experience that it was. Next time you take a job GO TO THE SITE BEFOREHAND. LOOK at what the conditions are going to be like, don't assume anything. KNOW before you get there what you're going to be facing as far as situational challenges go and know how to handle them. If flash photography is allowed, use one. Find that out beforehand as well.

People shot fights for decades with nothing but ASA 400 film and managed to get good shots (although in situations like that the film would normally be pushed to ASA 800 or 1200). Shooting at ISO 10,000 gives you nearly 5 stops of light over that. They dealt with it so there ARE ways of doing so. Figure out what YOU need to do and make it happen. If you take the job it' your responsibility.