Calumet: another one goes under....DONE

[Gavjenks]

Don't ever buy electronics from a guy selling out of his trunk.

What if his car is jacked up on some bricks held together with mortar?
On a related note, I swear to god the antique store where I occasionally do shop for lenses due to prices actually sells most of its photography equipment out of an old luggage trunk.

 

[robbins.photo]

Don't ever buy electronics from a guy selling out of his trunk.

What if his car is jacked up on some bricks held together with mortar?
On a related note, I swear to god the antique store where I occasionally do shop for lenses due to prices actually sells most of its photography equipment out of an old luggage trunk.

Well actually I was going for an elephant joke there and missed. Lol

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk

 

[Steve5D]

Anyway, still interested in productive, substantive answers to the question that's actually on track with the OP:

Why do I want brick and mortar stores to stay around / care if they do?

You're not interested in any such answer; you've made that pretty clear. But, what the Hell, I'll give it a shot. I will add, though, that I expect you to completely dismiss this answer, regardless of the fact that you won't be ale to offer a counter argument.

The answer to your question actually extends far beyond any one industry.

Vibrant local business are essential for a healthy community. They generate revenue in the form of taxes paid to the local municipality, which goes to pay for things like fire and police protection and schools. When stores go away, that revenue goes away. Schools start to decline in quality, because they don't have the money to keep quality teachers or buy supplies. Without supplies and quality teachers, kids start not caring about school, and start cutting school. They start hanging out in front of what used to be healthy, vibrant businesses. Without their time being occupied at school, and being kids, they start getting into trouble. They start vandalizing those vacant stores. They start engaging in criminal activity.

Now, once a neighborhood gets a bad reputation, people stop looking to buy or rent homes in that neighborhood, and the available market will sit largely vacant. This leads to a further decline in revenue and tax base. Before long, you no longer have a neighborhood, you have a war zone. The houses that are vacated will, eventually, fall into states of decline through vandalism and neglect. No one will will want to rent them, no one will want to buy them, and no one will want to invest the money to fix up the properties that they won't be able to sell.

Like it or not, one thing is undeniable: People who don't see a value in brick & mortar stores; people like you, aid in the decline...

 

[Derrel]

SNIP> Schools start to decline in quality, because they don't have the money to keep quality teachers or buy supplies. Without supplies and quality teachers, kids start not caring about school, and start cutting school. They start hanging out in front of what used to be healthy, vibrant businesses. Without their time being occupied at school, and being kids, they start getting into trouble. They start vandalizing those vacant stores. They start engaging in criminal activity.

Now, once a neighborhood gets a bad reputation, people stop looking to buy or rent homes in that neighborhood, and the available market will sit largely vacant. This leads to a further decline in revenue and tax base. Before long, you no longer have a neighborhood, you have a war zone. The houses that are vacated will, eventually, fall into states of decline through vandalism and neglect. No one will will want to rent them, no one will want to buy them, and no one will want to invest the money to fix up the properties that they won't be able to sell.

Detroit's deadliest neighborhood | The Detroit News

 

[Gavjenks]

They generate revenue in the form of taxes paid to the local municipality

I don't dispute the chain reaction you describe, Steve, but it does all boil down to this one point. Which means that the extent to which the city gets more taxes with or without me shopping at an overpriced, obsolete photo store = the benefit or the damage to my city, yes?

Income Tax: Iowa City doesn't have any income tax.

Sales Tax: Iowa City has a small sales tax. I have to pay it to Iowa City regardless of whether I buy online or in brick and mortar, so I'm not immediately depriving my city of any tax income here. Even if they completely go out of business, Iowa City still gets my photography gear sales tax dollars. So they're no worse off, and probably, they will be better off, because it would likely be replaced with a bar, coffee shop, or restaurant, right across the street from my lab downtown in prime real estate, which are more relevant to the community and would almost certainly turn a lot more business than the dinosaur photography shop (especially one that goes out of business...) = more sales tax, including from me (I'd be buying beer/coffee/food in addition to the money I'd still be spending on cameras online. And since it's right across from me, I'd probably be tempted to eat there instead of cooking cheaply at home more often, too).

Also photography gear in general are luxury goods, and money people save on them is likely to just be spent on other luxuries, not buried under a mattress. If I spend $200 on a lens instead of $300, I'm going to spend the remaining $100 on a fancy dinner and night on the town with my partner or something, instead. Iowa City doesn't care either way, it's the same to them.

Property Tax: There is about a 4% commercial property tax. This gets paid the same to the city regardless of who runs what business there and/or how well they do. It only doesn't get paid if the property is flat out abandoned. Which that prime spot never would be, smack dab downtown.

"But maybe it would just offset some other abandoned property further out, where that new coffee shop / bar / restaurant would have been otherwise!" you say.
1) Not necessarily, because a ton of people don't have cars here, and the population is also not very uniformly spread, so more likely, the business wouldn't come to town at all if not for a vacant spot downtown. To a very real extent, the photo shop is using up a limited land resoure that could probably be much more efficiently generating local revenue.
2) It's a university town. And I've interviewed a lot of prospective students here. Guess what? Nobody has asked about photo stores when deciding whether to come here. To the extent they ask about businesses, they ask about bars, clubs, restaurants, coffee shops, theater, live music venues, etc. (and they experience only those things when we entertain them during interview weekends, too). All things that are immune to online competition, mind you. So the replacement would probably draw more citizens to town than the photography shop would. In addition to making more sales tax dollars.





TL;DR: In this case, it's not a question of "camera shop vs. empty lot." It's a question of "obsolete shop that isn't very relevant to the current community here vs. replacement business taking its place that IS relevant to the community." The replacement business would almost certainly make more sales tax dollars AND draw more citizens.

 

[robbins.photo]

See, and here I was voted "Most likely to start the next apocalypse" in high school. Huh. Well I tip my chapeau to you there Gav. Good show old bean, good show...

Lol

 

[Steve5D]

I don't dispute the chain reaction you describe, Steve...

That's a funny thing to say as the first comment in a post as long as your response was.

The fact is that you can't dispute it. You talk about "replacement" businesses. Well, at some point, the customers for those businesses will be as short-sighted as you are, and will decide they don't need that business. Then another replacement business comes in, and then another. Before long, the "replacement businesses" stop coming because there's a track record of business failures in that area.

You've made it pretty clear that you're not concerned with anyone with but yourself and anything beyond your own little world. I hope, for the health of the city in which you live that you're in the minority...

 

[Steve5D]

1) Not necessarily, because a ton of people don't have cars here, and the population is also not very uniformly spread, so more likely, the business wouldn't come to town at all if not for a vacant spot downtown.

And what you're intent on not acknowledging is that, at some point, the businesses will stop coming to town...

To a very real extent, the photo shop is using up a limited land resoure that could probably be much more efficiently generating local revenue.

You just got done talking about how the amount generated for the local municipality is the same regardless of the type of business. "Efficiency", insofar as tax revenue is concerned, isn't an issue. It's either getting paid or it isn't...

2) It's a university town. And I've interviewed a lot of prospective students here. Guess what? Nobody has asked about photo stores when deciding whether to come here. To the extent they ask about businesses, they ask about bars, clubs, restaurants, coffee shops, theater, live music venues, etc. (and they experience only those things when we entertain them during interview weekends, too). All things that are immune to online competition, mind you. So the replacement would probably draw more citizens to town than the photography shop would. In addition to making more sales tax dollars.

So the only businesses which can be viable are those which have no online competition?

LOLOL!!! How silly.

Of course they ask about that stuff. They're college kids. Things like coffee shops, live music venues and bars are social hubs, and college is, to a very large extent, a social environment. But the fatal mistake you're making is in concluding that, because someone doesn't ask about a particular type of business, they're not interested in it.

That's a silly conclusion to make...

 

[Steve5D]

On a related note, I swear to god the antique store where I occasionally do shop for lenses due to prices actually sells most of its photography equipment out of an old luggage trunk.

So you prefer to buy camera equipment from an antique store instead of a camera store?

 

[charlie76]

Ok, Im outta work, are we ready to rumble???

 

[robbins.photo]

Ok, Im outta work, are we ready to rumble???

Well I brought my shiv. And a really nice cozy I made for it. It's cold out there you know.. lol

 

[charlie76]

Edit: I'm just a dick...can't help it

 

[Gavjenks]

The fact is that you can't dispute it. You talk about "replacement" businesses. Well, at some point, the customers for those businesses will be as short-sighted as you are, and will decide they don't need that business. Then another replacement business comes in, and then another. Before long, the "replacement businesses" stop coming because there's a track record of business failures in that area.

Please explain how somebody could bypass the services of a coffee shop (food service, space to work out of the house, neutral social meeting location) by using online commerce??

You are assuming my logic applies to just all businesses, but it doesn't. It ONLY applies to retail businesses, and even then only ones that sell things that are very likely to work sight-unseen, are compact, are things I don't need ever on an immediate basis, and are easy to return for replacements when occasionally necessary.

That's a pretty short list. Probably describes 10% of the businesses in my town, at most. Which means that you don't actually get a situation where business after business fails in the same location. Because the vast majority of the time, the replacement business is going to be one of the 90% that are much more competitive with online commerce, and... the end. It works out fine and flourishes. No repeated failure. Instead, the town simply rapidly filters out the obsolete businesses and retains the relevant ones.

You've made it pretty clear that you're not concerned with anyone with but yourself and anything beyond your own little world. I hope, for the health of the city in which you live that you're in the minority...

On the contrary, an obsolete, less-relevant business to the community being replaced with one that's very relevant and compatible with the pressures of the internet (which isn't gonna get any less important, obviously) makes the town healthier and wealthier. Certain kinds of retail are simply becoming technologically obsolete for the mainstream. Just like carriage builders and candlemakers and armor smiths and ferriers. Propping them afloat artificially and helping them inefficiently take up space that could be used by a more modern-adapted business doesn't help me or my town.

Would you find excuses to patronize a typewriter repair shop just for the sake of patronizing them? No. Same deal.

You just got done talking about how the amount generated for the local municipality is the same regardless of the type of business. "Efficiency", insofar as tax revenue is concerned, isn't an issue. It's either getting paid or it isn't...

I was talking about sales tax again.

So you prefer to buy camera equipment from an antique store instead of a camera store?

Uh, yeah...
Antique store: usually about 50% discount compared to online
Camera store: usually about 100% markup compared to online

Antique stores are actually a great example of one of the MANY types of brick and mortar retail businesses that are actually quite competitive with online commerce (along with furniture, groceries, clothing, pharmacies, etc.). Ebay is for infinite selection, but rarely any fantastic deals. Brick and mortar antique stores have esoteric and limited selection, but great deals. And the division of labor works particularly well, because a lot of the time when you want to go antiquing (including for fun old manual lenses), you don't even have a particular thing in mind, while other times, you are looking for one particular extraordinarily rare little piece of something, so I have reason to take advantage of each place's specialty on different occasions.

By contrast, the camera store offers less selection AND higher prices, and limited utility of being able to inspect things in person. So it doesn't function as a specialization. It's just plain worse for everything. Yeah, they develop more kinds of film. And I can buy developer there a couple dollars more cheaply. That's about it--not enough to justify a whole storefront.

 

[kathyt]

Edit: I'm just a dick...can't help it

This is my kinda guy!

 

[charlie76]

Gav (Gavin?)...it seems like you are slowly and tactfully backing off of your position of thinking the mom-and-pop stores should be put out of business by the Wallmarts of this world because...you can get a better deal at the big boxers? I'd like to thoroughly read though you thousands of words...but I only had time to skim. If you could sum up your moral position without talking about the income tax in Iowa, I'd love to hear it.

Honestly...if you could teach me something about how the world would be better with large companies owning everything I would love to hear it. I certainly think I know everything, but I generally pride myself on being an openminded person.