Camera in manual and flash in manual or ETTL ?

[kc4sox]

Ok so I think I have a pretty good grasp of composition and my posing is getting better. I'm ready to jump headlong into off camera flash for portraiture. My recent threads for C&C of my portraits has shown me the need to focus on this aspect of my photography. So, I need advise on starting out. I've played some with the camera in manual as well as the flash and gotten some decent images. But, it took A LOT of trial and error to obtain those images I felt were "Keepers".

Here is an example of one of my "Keepers" Not up to some of your standards but, not bad in my humble opinion for a beginner.





Here's the question and request for advise:

As a Newbie in off camera flash would I better off shooting the body in manual and the flash in ETTL (Canon 5DMK3 / Canon 600ex-rt with ST-E3-RT radio trigger) (Is this even possible ? ) Or should I just fumble along playing with the flash until I learn to set the proper flash exposure ? I understand the principle of obtaining the ambient exposure first then adding flash to the desired exposure and effect. And, for the most part I understand the interactions of ISO, shutter speed and Aperture . And how each affects the overall exposure.

I'm doing some natural light portraits for friends and friends of friends and, I'd like to be able to step up my game without looking like a fumbling idiot !


So, How do I proceed..................?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[table1349]

This will explain a lot about using EOS flash: Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

 

[Scatterbrained]

Buy a light meter. That takes all the guess work out.

 

[kc4sox]

This will explain a lot about using EOS flash: Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

Thank you that's a lot of really good information !

 

[tirediron]

My preference for portraiture using off-camera lighting is full manual on both. The problem with using ETL flash for portrait work, especially out of doors (IMO) is that you can never be 100% sure what the system will meter, and something as simple as a cloud passing in front of the sun can mess things up.


A lot of people initially feel that shooting with off-camera lighting in manual is too intimidating, but it doesn't have to be. First of all, the camera really isn't a huge factor. Your shutter speed (at least until you become more skilled) will be left at your camera's sync speed (usually 1/200 - 1/250) and your aperture set to give you sufficient depth of field. In the studio I normally use f8 so that I don't have any worries about noses or hands being out of focus, out of doors, I'll use the largest possible aperture which gives me the DoF needed for the shot.


Once you've determined the aperture you want to use, then it's simply a matter setting your light(s) output so that it provides the amount of light necessary to achieve the exposure required. A flash meter is a great asset, but to start off with, you can use the guide number method to get you into the ball-park and then fine-tune by reviewing on your rear LCD and adjusting the light output up or down as required. Bear in mind that most modifiers will cost you 1 - 1.5 stops.

 

[KmH]

+1 as far as TTL flash being inconsistent and often unpredictable.

Hot shoe flash units have a GN or Guide Number that can be used to calculate useful info:
GN = distance × f-number

With some basic algebra we can rearrange that equation and get:
GN / distance = f number
GN / f number = distance

Guide number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With experience it starts becoming more intuitive and you can usually estimate real close to right what aperture and flash unit power settings you need for any particular lighting set up.

 

[Derrel]

Buy a light meter. That takes all the guess work out.

Using a flash meter also leads to consistent exposures, technical excellence, predictable and consistent results frame after frame, and mastery and understanding....all very dangerous things! It also makes editing and processing so much faster and much less of a pain in the butt. Who needs all those benefits???

 

[TCampbell]

I use ETTL all the time (I also have a 5D III, 600EX-RT's and the ST-E3-RT transmitter.)

If the scene has it's own ambient light (in other words it's not a studio) then you meter and set the exposure for the ambient light -- the flash will perform as fill light or accent lighting. NOW... depending on what you want the light to do, you can use ETTL (with liberal use of the "flash exposure compensation" control) as needed. This relates to something called "flash contribution".

Flash contribution is the percentage of light in the scene being contributed by the flash as compared to the light be contrived by the available lighting. I find, for example, that if I'm shooting outdoors and I want the images to appear to be lit entirely by natural light (but not look as bad as natural light can look) then I need to use the flash to weaken shadows, etc. I'd like the flash to be perhaps around 2/3rd or 1 stop weaker than the available light. So I'll use ETTL... but I'll set the FEC to -1 or -2/3rds and check the look.

On the top of the camera, the ISO button also has a box with the lighting bolt +/- button. That's the flash exposure compensation control. Incidentally... you can ALSO change flash exposure compensation by using the menu on the flash, but you cannot do BOTH at the same time. In other words, if you fiddle with the flash menu to set FEC then the camera will be locked out of also applying FEC. If you prefer to use the camera (which is probably faster) then use the flash's menu to set the FEC to "0" (that allows the ability to use the on-camera menu to adjust FEC).

The bottom line on ETTL is not to just leave the FEC at 0 all the time (which may result in a flat look.)

If you put the flash in manual then everything turns to the world of the inverse-square law. You can look this up (and there are plenty of flash photography tutorials that address it) but the rule says that as light is farther from the subject, the light rays spread out based on a math formula that is easy to calculate. As the distance increases (or decreases) by a factor of the square root of 2 (and for rounding purposes just use 1.4) then the amount of light will be halved (or if getting closer by that factor it will be doubled).

It turns out each f-stop on your camera is ALSO based on the powers of the square root of 2. f/4, for example is the square root of 2 raised to the 4th power. f/5.6... that's raised the 5th power. f/8... that's the 6th power, etc. etc. This is because when you change the diameter of a circle (or in this case, the area of the aperture hole in the lens) by a factor of the square root of 2 then you increase (or decrease depending on which way you're going) the AREA of that circle by example double (or half).

The flash power level control when shooting manual based on the fractional power level you want to use. The values are 1/1 (full), 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16th, etc. Notice that each one cuts the power level by half of the previous power setting.

So essentially you are using aperture setting, flash power output, and physical distance of the flash (from the subject) to control how it exposes in camera. If you use a lighting modifier (e.g. suppose you're using a "shoot through" umbrella) then the modifier is going to eat some light and you'd have to figure out how much it eats.

When you're doing a controlled shoot, you can adjust as needed to get the results you want and you know that the three variables you adjust are going to be the flash output power, the distance from subject, and the f-stop on camera (notice, btw, that shutter speed is NOT one of the settings you change. That just needs to be set at or below flash sync speed and if you're trying to collect ambient light to add depth to the lighting then you want it below that speed anyway.)

But what about those situations where you are pressed to get the shots quickly and don't have time to fuss with the lighting? Since it's all based on math, it's all highly repeatable. You will also find that in these types of situations your photos fall into categories that are also repeatable. Suppose you have a 50mm focal length (standard focal length lens for a full-frame camera) and you are shooting a "half shot" (waist-up composition)... the DISTANCE at which you stand to get that composition will be pretty consistent. You'll find the f-stop needed at the flash output power and use it. For example, at a wedding if I'm going to shoot a couple slow-dancing on the dance floor and I wanted a closer-framing half-shot of the two of them, I KNEW that I'd be about 7' away from them and I'd set f/16 and take the shot (f/16 was for the lighting I used back in those days... not with the 600EX-RT). But if I wanted a "full length" shot, then I'd move back to 14' and shoot it at f/8. Since the distance necessary to get that same framing is repeatable, the flash power and/or f-stop needed is ALSO repeatable. You can nail the shots without having to worry about it but it does mean you anticipate what framing you plan to shoot next and just pre-adjust the camera as you approach the subject. With a zoom this is more complicated and you really have to think about the distance you plan to shoot and not the framing (since you can change the angle of view by changing the focal length when using a zoom lens.)

 

[dangerred]

You might find this webinar helpful -

 

[kc4sox]

After watching that video I think I'm going to begin with E-TTL and FEC when I'm shooting for someone either paid or for fun / free. And, spend "Training time" on mastering full manual until it become second nature to me. I actually have a portrait shoot for a friend this coming week so, I have an opportunity to put what I just learned into practice.

I'm so glad I found this forum. You guys are really helping me shorten the learning curve.

Thanks so much guys

Mike

 

[Big Mike]

I use manual flash, but I only have one option for off-camera TTL (580EX on and 430EX off), which isn't really the best option.

As usual, Tim (and others) have given a great responses.

I don't know about that video, but just the title shot showing two different looking photos to argue the point of TTL vs non-TTL....that puts up red flags for me. I also see the name Rick Sammon, who may be a respected guy...but the impression I have of him, after seeing a few 'how to' videos....is that he's an idiot.

You can get the exact same results in ETTL or manual. There are really only two sets of variables. The camera exposure (ISO, Shutter Speed, Aperture) and the flash exposure (flash power, distance to subject, modifiers/zoom).

The way that you arrive at the settings that will give you the image you want, is what is in question here....but you can get to those settings with either method....it just takes a good understanding of how it all works.

 

[dangerred]

Mike, the pictures of the video are of the same model taken at the same location during the same shoot by Rick and Joe using their preferred shooting style, so your "red flags" assumption is off base. I respect your feelings about Sammon (mine do differ) but you and others should watch the video for themselves. Y'all might just learn something new. And for the record, I shoot manual also.

 

[tirediron]

... you and others should watch the video for themselves. Y'all might just learn something new. And for the record, I shoot manual also.

I've watched the video (most of it at least), and like so many similar ones, as far as I'm concerned it's nothing more than a 60 minute commercial.

 

[kc4sox]

... you and others should watch the video for themselves. Y'all might just learn something new. And for the record, I shoot manual also.

I've watched the video (most of it at least), and like so many similar ones, as far as I'm concerned it's nothing more than a 60 minute commercial.

I agree. But it did show me that you get very similar results using E-TTL flash. And that did answer my question.

 

[Big Mike]

Mike, the pictures of the video are of the same model taken at the same location during the same shoot by Rick and Joe using their preferred shooting style, so your "red flags" assumption is off base. I respect your feelings about Sammon (mine do differ) but you and others should watch the video for themselves. Y'all might just learn something new. And for the record, I shoot manual also.

Fair enough....I admit that I didn't watch the video. I just don't like that the 'title screen' is misleading. It's basically telling people that you will get one result in TTL and a rather different result without TTL. The video might explain it better but I won't know because they've turned me off already.