Can I steal your image?

dizzyg44 · Feb 25, 2009

I still can't believe no one has mentioned the time/labor aspect of this.

Someone was rationalizing that taking some pics were ok because they were just taking (electronically) them, not taking a physical print.

Taking someone else's work (physically or electronically) is still IN SPIRIT stealing. The victim's time and labor consumed to produce that work is what is actually being taken.

Do you provide free labor? especially so someone else can profit/use for their benefit?

software for example (like photographs) don't magically appear, someone had to work to produce them the same as a working producing a physical good.

IMHO

Give me your .jpg! What do you mean it's yours? Ultimately you are just giving me a set of 1's and 0's in a pre arranged order.....says the guy to the other guy who spent 8hrs arranging those 1's/0's just right so to speak......

Big Bully · Feb 25, 2009

jlykins said:
people do steal a lot of images off of the internet. I always get permisson from the person before I use an image for anything on my blog. Just thought it was funny that they actually emailed me with that request.

I know what you mean. I found some of my images posted on another forum (granted not a photo forum), with no mention to the fact that they were my images. It seriously ticks me off when people take credit for my work, and I have the number sequence on my computer to confirm that they were from my camera.. *pricks*

I think more than anything, and I know we are arguing over the terminology of theft, and copyright here, but more than anything seeing your work posted somewhere, without mention of who took it is an ego/pride killer. That is someones work, something they worked hard on to "get the shot and make it great".

Intellectual property can be stolen. Property is property.

Joves · Feb 25, 2009

Well either way taking someones image wether you consider it stealing or infringement, is still dishonest. If it is done to you it would make you feel as though they stole from you. Maybe it is a matter of how you feel about it is what type of ethics you were taught as a child. I know in my old fashioned world it is stealing, wether it is an image or idea.

Phranquey · Feb 25, 2009

Overread said:
I think your going to be on your own with this one!

I just can't see how you can't see that it is stealing in a form.

I agree. epp b, allow me to pose a hypothetical situation.......

There has been region wide search in the south-east for the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker, once thought to be extinct, but there have been some unsubstantiated sightings of this bird. You are out in the woods, on walkabout with your camera, and, what do you know....there's one hanging on a tree & you get a great picture of it.
National Geographic is offering you a cool half-mill for this pic to be on the cover, but all of a sudden, some birding magazine "infringes" on your photograph and prints it without your permission. WOW....it's just copying, you'll just let it slide????

Hmmmm....I think NOT.

And that birding magazine didn't just "steal" a half-million from your pocket?

Hmmmm....I think SO.

I don't care what the legal term is, if you "infringe" my copyright, you are "stealing" from my pocket. It may not be theft in the criminal sense, but it still feels the same.

epp_b · Feb 25, 2009

National Geographic is offering you a cool half-mill for this pic to be on the cover, but all of a sudden, some birding magazine "infringes" on your photograph and prints it without your permission. WOW....it's just copying, you'll just let it slide????

After NG has given me an amount of money I can live off for the rest of my life? Why should I care then?

I don't care what the legal term is, if you "infringe" my copyright, you are "stealing" from my pocket. It may not be theft in the criminal sense, but it still feels the same.

Wow, wouldn't it be nice if the law were based on how you feel about something?

Phranquey · Feb 25, 2009

epp_b said:
After NG has given me an amount of money I can live off for the rest of my life? Why should I care then?

Because I still believe in something called "Principle". The arguement was implied to state that since the picture was published elsewhere first, you wouldn't get your money from NG.

Why do I feel like I am arguing with my teenage son......

Kegger · Feb 25, 2009

Here's one that might actually hit home epp_b...

Say I were take an image, namely this one,

:Image removed. Think snow:

and print up a whole mess of 'em and sell them along with all my other photos that I sell. And at the same time, never tell anyone who actually took the shot, and never let the person who took the shot know I'm doing this.

What if I sold so many of them, I make millions of dollars. Then told you I copied your photo and did all this, and never handed you a red cent.

I think that would piss you off. Which seems to be the whole argument here, that someone is using an image without permission for their own use, pleasure, or personal gain.

epp_b · Feb 25, 2009

^ Hum... go ahead, try and print off a 500px wide image any larger than two inches wide and see what sort of quality you get. It certainly won't be anything salable.

Additionally, thanks for helping publicize me!

The arguement was implied to state that since the picture was published elsewhere first, you wouldn't get your money from NG.

That's a bit of a technical impossibility since I'm smart enough not to publish my images at any reasonably printable size.

dEARlEADER · Feb 25, 2009

Kegger said:
Here's one that might actually hit home epp_b...

Say I were take an image, namely this one,

and print up a whole mess of 'em and sell them along with all my other photos that I sell. And at the same time, never tell anyone who actually took the shot, and never let the person who took the shot know I'm doing this.

What if I sold so many of them, I make millions of dollars. Then told you I copied your photo and did all this, and never handed you a red cent.

I think that would piss you off. Which seems to be the whole argument here, that someone is using an image without permission for their own use, pleasure, or personal gain.

No... the purpose of the argument was to separate the criminal term of theft from the term of copyright infringement...

What you did to his photo is a copyright infringement... For which you still can be held financially accountable in civil court proceedings....

Kegger · Feb 25, 2009

I know, that's the point. I illustrated both points, the copyright infringement, as well as the criminal aspect.

But since it's just his copyright, who cares.... At least that's the vibe I'm getting from him.

epp_b · Feb 25, 2009

The point I'm trying to make is to tell it as it is and not trump it up by euphemising it as "theft".

Kegger · Feb 25, 2009

And I understand that. I'm trying to point out the fact that even though it is not theft in the legal sense of the word, it goes against many people personal feelings on the matter. Most people aren't well versed in the law, and that's how they view it, as theft.

But that's what lawyers are for, to unscrew the situation and put it in a way that legally defines what has happened.

Just like me, you can say "infringement" all day long to me. I'm a 22 year old kid. It's theft to me. So I get a lawyer, he files the civil suit under the category of "copyright infringement." The legal terminology for this specific incident that I call in layman's terms, theft.

TheOtherBob · Feb 25, 2009

epp_b said:
That's a bit of a technical impossibility since I'm smart enough not to publish my images at any reasonably printable size.

You're dodging the hypothetical -- and that's understandable, because there's no good answer to it. How the birding magazine manages to get your image isn't important -- but since it seems important to you, let's say you had it on a CD, and someone pickpocketed you and sold the image to them.

It seems to be your position that it's now theirs to do with as they wish -- that they can publish it, that you have no right to seek compensation, and that you're just SOL and out the half mil. If I understand correctly, it's your position, in fact, that your only cause of action would be against the pickpocket -- and only for the cost of the CD ($1.50?). If so, well, it's a position, certainly.

sabbath999 · Feb 25, 2009

Antarctican said:
A penguin bill perhaps....

Sombody gathering up the funds to pay anti's bill...

JerryPH · Feb 26, 2009

epp_b said:
^ Hum... go ahead, try and print off a 500px wide image any larger than two inches wide and see what sort of quality you get. It certainly won't be anything salable.

Wow, that comment about arguing with a teenage boy really struck home with that reply. :lol:

Instead of trying to see the facts of a situation, we get a "try and print off a 500px wide image any larger than two inches wide..." comment.

The concept is simple... if someone used a photo that YOU took and made millions of dollars from it, and you saw this... can we assume that you would remain passive and let this theft go? Would you feel "infringed" or would you feel stolen from? Hell, if that happened to me, I'd feel RAPED! :grumpy:

Legally it may be called "infringement", but the facts of the matter is that someone other than you, has a huge wadded bankroll in their pocket becuase they used YOUR picture illegally without YOUR permission. Call that what you want, *this* is what we are discussing... not excuses about small sizes.

Sheesh!