Canon 1D MK IV officially released!

[schumionbike]

Miles better than a D3

Still haven't answer the question.

I thought someone would bite, do you think Canon would bring out a new camera if it did not better the D3, i think there could be a lot of ex canon owners that changed to Nikon D3 that wish they had stayed :lmao:

that's doesn't look like it's the case so far : we'll find out soon enough.

 

[DScience]

They're saying on the Canon forums that the Mk4 doesn't have color metering. It also lacks the LCD display in the view finder that they gave the 7D.

What a joke.

So, they gave us 16MP on a APS-H sensor that has marginal high ISO performance (based on test shots posted to CNET Asia) and which lacks any real advancements in metering or even AF. Oh, yeah, the AF is color blind too. But on the bright side, they claim it corrects the faults of the Mk3. But then they claimed the Mk3 was superior to the Mk2n... and it wasn't.

They should have called this the Mk3n. This is hardly a major release.

...talk about being majorly disappointed in Canon at this point.

Nikon holds the lead once again.

Intempus....if your that upset with Canon, I would be happy to send you my Nikon gear in exchange for ALL your Canon gear. )

 

[soylentgreen]

I am not too sure if I would compare a 1D with a D3. Both cameras are slanted towards different types of photography. I've used both the 1Ds/1D Mark III for wildlife/ action photography and never had an issue with the AF. Even in extremely low-contrast shots it was able to pick up and track with no problems. I held out on getting the 1D Mark III because i wanted a few more MP for more resolution. I am kinda spoiled with the 5D Mark II. The new 16MP on the Mark IV will hopefully flip the bill. Video is ho-hum since i rarely use it. As for ISO, when am I ever going to use it over ISO 3200? This high ISO battle is bogus IMO. Anything that high, ISO 102,400, is pure crap that is not worth printing (You guys still print your photos right?). Maybe anything over ISO 25,000 is for a rag newspaper at 96 dpi. You want to shoot in low-light? Get fast glass. My 5D Mark II with a 50 f/1.4 can get 1/250 at ISO 800 in a candle-lit bar. And there is no denying the resolution. I hate using flash photography, and the lack of one only forces me to do without.
I see these incremental steps in development as a sorta game manufacturers play on the consumer. They are never going to give us everything in one model. What are they going to sell us next than? It's enough of an upgrade for me to step up to the 1D line since it is the AF I am after more than anything. The build quality and weather proofing is second to none. And teh resolution is there since I had no issues with it under the Digic III processer.

 

[epp_b]

Looks like Nikon and Canon are about to pay the price for pissing away R&D on useless features like ... oh, I dunno, "video" ...

Well...i'm at a football match, in the press room and as expected the talk amongst the togs is the mkIV. There's 20 floating around in the UK and it sounds like I'll get a chance to try one before general release in Dec. They're doing the rounds at all the major agencies and we're in line to get one for a bit.

I'll let you all know how it is...however...

It probably wont be at a football match. FIFA are likely to release a technical document within the next few weeks re-iterating that cameras which have video enabled (ie. the mkIV and the D3s) are prohibited for all major FIFA tournaments and qualifiers. It is expected that the FA or Football Data Co will also re-release technical documents re-iterating its prohibition of video enabled cameras or the transmission of "quick succession consecutive stills which can be broadcast as video".

Sausage: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8859159#post8859159

 

[soylentgreen]

Looks like Nikon and Canon are about to pay the price for pissing away R&D on useless features like ... oh, I dunno, "video" ...

Well...i'm at a football match, in the press room and as expected the talk amongst the togs is the mkIV. There's 20 floating around in the UK and it sounds like I'll get a chance to try one before general release in Dec. They're doing the rounds at all the major agencies and we're in line to get one for a bit.

I'll let you all know how it is...however...

It probably wont be at a football match. FIFA are likely to release a technical document within the next few weeks re-iterating that cameras which have video enabled (ie. the mkIV and the D3s) are prohibited for all major FIFA tournaments and qualifiers. It is expected that the FA or Football Data Co will also re-release technical documents re-iterating its prohibition of video enabled cameras or the transmission of "quick succession consecutive stills which can be broadcast as video".

Sausage: Canon 1D MK IV - Warehouse Express - Page 4 - Canon Digital Photography Forums

I am pretty sure that the manufacturers can cripple some models for those events. Just a firmware downgrade as it were.

 

[Derrel]

Canon has some sample files and movie clips from the 1D Mark IV here Canon: EOS-1D Mark IV Sample Images & Movie

Below are a few short snippets from the Rob Galbraith preview of the newly-announced ESO 1D Mark IV, with a few comments from me following each quoted segment. Rob Galbraith DPI: Canon announces 16.06 million image pixel EOS-1D Mark IV
"...the circuitry that reads each pixel's signal before pumping it through eight channels to the analog-to-digital converter."
***This is a nice feature--read out noise can be minimized by using multiple,separate channels. Nikon's D3 uses six read out channels due to its larger pixel pitch of 8.45µm; with the 1D Mark IV having a smaller, 1.3x sensor and 5.7µm [ µm micron square] pixel pitch, the added two read out channels makes perfect sense as a logical way to reduce noise in the signal coming off the chip, before the information reaches the analog-to-digital converter. A welcome (and probably necessary!) hardware design feature considering the jump from the MK 3's 10 MP to 16 MP, with smaller pixel size.

"...Mark IV offers one full resolution plus two reduced resolution RAW settings, MRAW and SRAW."
***Nice! Medium and Small RAW files will give better post-production white balance correction and wider dynamic range than in-camera JPEGs, and will use less CF and drive space,and will shorten download and FTP file transfer times for those working on tight deadlines. I have been VERY impressed with reduced-size RAWs from the 5D Mark II. For newsprint, which I have shot for, 6 MP is ample,really.

"Like the EOS-1D Mark III, the EOS-1D Mark IV's sensor is the self-cleaning variety. The newer camera, however, incorporates an anti-dust fluorine coating on the outer surface of the sensor package." ***Self-explanatory--good, and good.

"... numerous aspects of the 45-point AF system in the EOS-1D Mark III have been reworked for the EOS-1D Mark IV. Canon has made changes to both the hardware components responsible for AF as well as the algorithms that govern the AF system's behaviour. There are feature changes too, such as the ability to manually select from all 45 points individually (the EOS-1D Mark III limits manual selection to a maximum of 19 points)." and also "...can optionally be configured so that the active AF point automatically switches when the camera pivots from horizontal to vertical, or vice versa"
***The ability to have the AF point rotate when the camera is turned was one thing MusicAle expressed a desire to have in the 7D; well, for just under three times the cost of the 7D, users will get that feature in the Mark IV.
***The Mark III had the fastest one-shot, initial focus acquisition Rob Galbraith and his staff had ever tested, but there was an ongoing 18-month saga of AF problems in sequential shooting with many bodies. The Mark IV will be equipped with a new, different AF system, with a chance for new features and new hardware and software to bring the AF up to a truly state of the art performance in the field. Where the 1D Mark III was not even UltraDMA2-compliant,thus limiting the camera to an 11MB/ second write speed, the Mark IV is UDMA6-compliant, making it compatible with new cards that write in the 600x or 90 MB/second speed range. Not sure about the write speed of the second SD/SDHC card slot, but the presence of an SD card slot will allow the camera to use a Wi-FI enabled SD card, thus allowing direct camera-to-network or camera-to-web uploading feature,allowing location shooters and photojournalists to upload without the need of a laptop computer or Canon's add-on wireless unit. SD cards are also inexpensive,small, and available at Mom and Pop stores around the world. I stopped into a remote mountain store called "The Outpost"...they had fishing tackle, beer, firewood, snow chains, and SD memory cards right by the fishing tackle and battery section...50 miles from the nearest real town, and 15 miles from the end of the paved road. The area I find oddest in the stated RAW buffer depth of only 28 images. That is roughly 2.8 seconds at full firing rate,and I wonder if like the Mark III, if the buffer will lose 1/2 to 1/3 capacity at elevated ISO settings such as 3200, or if the buffer will *truly* be 28 RAW files. Nikon's D3s has a factory buffer size of 45 RAW files, or five full seconds' worth of shooting at maximum frame rate of 9 fps. Considering that a long North American football rushing play can stretch out over 10 to 15 seconds, and the useful shooting zone on most track and field events lasts roughly 10-15 seconds from the last turn to the finish line, the more seconds' worth of full-quality firing, the better for a sports/action camera.

The Mark IV also has a new ISO range, with ISO 100 being the base ISO, with native ISO's up to 12,800. Settings above 12,800 are not native, and are roughly ISO-equivalents (not fully compliant with ISO standards), and there are three Hi-modes, 1,2,and 3, that take the camera up to an Exposure Index of 102,400. I have read Canon's information all afternoon: the Mark IV does not have color-aware light metering or color aware focusing information, or the combined aware metering and color-aware AF system that Nikon has in its newer bodies. And the cross-sensors in the Mk IV? SOME f/4 lenses and SOME f/4 effective f/4 prime telephoto lens + Teleconverter combos will be able to use the 39 cross-type sensors; the 17-40 f/4 L and 24-105 f/4 L lenses, although not actually f/2.8, **will be able to** use/access the 39 cross-type AF points, as will the 70-200 2.8 L-IS + TC 1.4x, and the Big-Glass 200mm f/2 + TC2x,the 300mm/2.8 and the 400mm f/2.8 with the 1.4x converters. This is a BIG step up over the Mark III. Some props to Canon for clever engineering there.

What's a bit odd is that the 70-200 2.8 L NON-IS model + 1.4x converter combination will *not* have access to the 39 cross-type sensors,according to Rob Galbraith's site. Neither will their 500mm f/4 L lens.

Still, Canon's got a bunch of new multi-spot, patterned AF focusing schemes, which is something Nikon has had since 2004 in the D2 series, and is in my opinion, a big step up for action shooters. The lack of the new-style viewfinder screen found in the 7D is a necessity for those who want to be able to manually-focus fast lenses by hand and eye, especially off-center, and who wish to use auxilliary viewfinder screens that give better manual focusing ascertainment with fast glass; the 7D's new ultra-bright transmissive viewfinder screen is causing a lot of focusing problems for sports shooters and fast-glass users who report being unable to accurately ascertain focus visually on the new, super-brightened, ultra-clear viewfinder screen; the older-technology viewfinder screens found in pro Nikons and pro Canon bodies is a little dimmer than the 7D's screen, but the older-technology has proven itself for multiple generations,and buyers of $5,000 cameras want to stick with proven technology most of the time.

 

[schumionbike]

Interesting write up Derrel, I'm definitely excited to see how this camera work out. Yeah, the ISO war is getting pretty rediculous with 102,400 ISO but I think you do get cleaner images at say 6400 ISO. Beside, ISO war is more fun to watch then megapixel war.

 

[AverageJoe]

I couldn't figure out which noisy ISO images you guys were referring to then I notice this on the Asian CNET Site:

Editors' note:
The images taken with the pre-production unit of the EOS 1D Mark IV have been removed at Canon's request, as we will be getting the actual review unit. Watch out for the sample shots to come.

Looks like they were so bad even Canon didn't want them shown!

 

[schumionbike]

I couldn't figure out which noisy ISO images you guys were referring to then I notice this on the Asian CNET Site:

Editors' note:
The images taken with the pre-production unit of the EOS 1D Mark IV have been removed at Canon's request, as we will be getting the actual review unit. Watch out for the sample shots to come.

Looks like they were so bad even Canon didn't want them shown!

In all fairness, I don't even know what the heck they were taken pictures of and why they chose that subject of all things take test shots. It'll be a while before we can get some decents review.

 

[soylentgreen]

The other gripe always making the rounds is the MP's increasing and the noise inherent there-in. Last I checked, the sensor sizes have all remained the same since inception; APS-C, APS-H, FF, whatever. With all the advancements from 4MP to 18MP for the APS-C, the IQ has gotten significantly better even as the pixel count increased. I think too many photographers are wishing for ISO 100 quality at ISO 12800. That ain't gonna happen.
I put enough faith in the engineers to actually know what they are doing. In the tight, competetive market that is digital photography, they are more than aware of the consequences. All brands suffer to some degree as their products do not meet expectations.
In the end, the camera is just a tool. As long at it can perform to your standards and accomplish the task, what else do you need?

 

[musicaleCA]

The other gripe always making the rounds is the MP's increasing and the noise inherent there-in. Last I checked, the sensor sizes have all remained the same since inception; APS-C, APS-H, FF, whatever. With all the advancements from 4MP to 18MP for the APS-C, the IQ has gotten significantly better even as the pixel count increased. I think too many photographers are wishing for ISO 100 quality at ISO 12800. That ain't gonna happen.
I put enough faith in the engineers to actually know what they are doing. In the tight, competetive market that is digital photography, they are more than aware of the consequences. All brands suffer to some degree as their products do not meet expectations.
In the end, the camera is just a tool. As long at it can perform to your standards and accomplish the task, what else do you need?

A good sammich and some soup. Wait, I can get that at the café down the street. Nevermind, I'm set.

 

[Antithesis]

I've gotten the "damn it, this sucks" ranting out of my system. The guys over on the Canon forums are doing a bang up job of defending it. Check this post out:

The Mk1V already trumps the D3s in virtually every way. From ISO range, FPS, resolution, video, liveview, you name it. I personally prefer 1.3x over FF as it gives extra reach, but still shallow DOF close to FF (unlike 1.6x). Same with the AF (where the MkIII has beaten the D3 in every head to head test and in my own). The new Servo II will most definitely be even better. Don't buy into the marketing terminology.

The fact that on paper the Mk1V is better than any DSLR out there, yet we still consider it a letdown seems to be par for the course on forums.

As for color metering, it will be included (the 7D uses it, and the new flagship will as well), however, who really cares? The metering of the MkIII was already as good as the Nikon cameras that use color metering.

I'm just going to sit back, wait until next month and see what reviewers and owners have to say about it. Maybe I'm just being a killjoy for no good reason. I guess I was expecting something revolutionary vs. another relatively mundane refresh.

That guys defense of the camera is kind of weak. Even if the camera just surpasses the D3, it's still in the territory of a 2 year old camera. I'm sure the mk4 will be a fine camera, just like the mk3 before it but Canon still seems to be making weird marketing decisions. More resolution, video and "picture styles" in a PJ/Sports cam? I understand the defense for it, but it still sounds like marketing lingo to me.

 

[MrLogic]

Canon has some sample files and movie clips from the 1D Mark IV here Canon: EOS-1D Mark IV Sample Images & Movie

The Nikon D3s sample images for comparison:

Nikon | Imaging Products | Nikon D3S


The Canon sample images don't go further than ISO 3200. I don't know if that's a good marketing strategy... when the competition has no issue with posting ISO 12800 shots on their official website. Yeah, it's "only" a 2 stop difference, but still... max. native ISO is 12800 on both cameras and it's one of the key features / main selling points.




The Canon 1D at ISO 3200:

http://aux1.jp.canon.com/eosd/samples/eos1dm4/downloads/005.jpg


Nikon 3Ds at ISO 6400:

http://chsvimg.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d3s/img/pic_001b.jpg

 

[FrankLamont]

Canon's requested on almost all sites now for images taken by pre-production models to be taken down... so we'll possibly be seeing the 'real thing' any time soon.

 

[MrLogic]

Canon's requested on almost all sites now for images taken by pre-production models to be taken down... so we'll possibly be seeing the 'real thing' any time soon.

???

Derrel linked to Canon's (Japanese) website. Those images are "the real thing."