Canon 5D Mk II - Image rendering Q

[mikeyp69]

Hi - Apologies if this has already been covered. I have recently got a new 5D Mk II as my first full frame DSLR.

I am finding that the images I take look great on the LCD. They also also look great on my Mac when viewed with the Canon software (Canon Digital Photo Professional and the Canon Image Browser).

However, when I view them in Adobe Lightroom or Apple Preview, they look flat, dull and boring. The presets for the camera in Lightroom just don't appear to be correct. I have the latest version of Lightroom - v3.3 (with Camera Raw 6.3). I can understand Preview being Cr*ppy, but not LR.

I have the same issue with both CR2 raw and JPG files.

Any tips on how to resolve this?

Thx
Mike.

 

[Garbz]

That last part rings an alarm bell.

Are you saying that JPEGs you open in Canon's Image Browser look better than JPEGs opened in Lightroom? If so then it is a windows colour settings problem.

Or are you saying that only RAWs look dull in Lightroom. Well there's a good reason for this. Adobe provides standard conservative settings to all Lightroom images regardless of what camera model you have. The key here is that you have the power to change this. Have a play with all the settings and if you can't get the image to look the way you want then... have a play with the settings again. Once you find something that works well for a lot of image set it as the import default and it will form the starting point for all images you take. You can apply it to past images by selecting them all and clicking reset.

 

[mikeyp69]

Grbz,

Thx for the reply. Pls see me comments in line:

That last part rings an alarm bell.

Are you saying that JPEGs you open in Canon's Image Browser look better than JPEGs opened in Lightroom? If so then it is a windows colour settings problem.

Sorry mate, but you are wrong here. If it was an operating system colour settings issue, then the rendering problem would also show with both Canon Image Browser and Lightroom. As the images are fine with Canon Image Browser, and not with LR or Preview, then is cannot be an OS issue. BTW - I am using a Snow Leopard on Mac not Windows.

Or are you saying that only RAWs look dull in Lightroom. Well there's a good reason for this. Adobe provides standard conservative settings to all Lightroom images regardless of what camera model you have. The key here is that you have the power to change this. Have a play with all the settings and if you can't get the image to look the way you want then... have a play with the settings again. Once you find something that works well for a lot of image set it as the import default and it will form the starting point for all images you take. You can apply it to past images by selecting them all and clicking reset.

Thats an interesting point. Well as I am learning LR, this will be an issue and a frustrating one at that too. I guess what I am after are some stock LR settings that replicates the rendering in the Canon Imaging SW. Any tips on where to get this?

 

[LarissaPhotography]

The back of the LCD screen on the Mark II always looks extra sharp. I think there's some sharpening going on inside the display processing of the Mark II.

 

[mikeyp69]

Maybe, but I am referrring to the Canon Imaging Software installed on my Mac...

...the display on the camera is nothing to do with my problem !

 

[Garbz]

Sorry mate, but you are wrong here. If it was an operating system colour settings issue, then the rendering problem would also show with both Canon Image Browser and Lightroom. As the images are fine with Canon Image Browser, and not with LR or Preview, then is cannot be an OS issue. BTW - I am using a Snow Leopard on Mac not Windows.

...


Thats an interesting point. Well as I am learning LR, this will be an issue and a frustrating one at that too. I guess what I am after are some stock LR settings that replicates the rendering in the Canon Imaging SW. Any tips on where to get this?

You're under the assumption that Canon also gets colour settings from the operating system. Different programs do things differently. I know Lightroom does get the current colour profile from the operating system, and I also know that Lightroom doesn't apply any modifications or interpretations to a JPEG image. If Lightroom isn't showing your JPEG like another program then it is still a colour setting problem as the only modifications that Lightroom does is convert the JPEG to the display profile before displaying, and that profile comes from the OS. I know for a fact that the last version of Nikon Capture NX I used did not do this, which would lead to a situation where the Lightroom is actually right and the other program wrong (assuming assuming your OS display profile is set correctly).

You didn't answer the clarification by the way. Do JPEGs look wrong in Lightroom?


As for presets. I'm at a loss here. It's a very personal thing. A lot of people change to Lightroom because they are not satisfied with their current program. I am like that and I have never had the intention of trying to emulate Nikon Capture's colour and tone in Lightroom because it looked to my eyes.

 

[Light Guru]

I am finding that the images I take look great on the LCD. They also also look great on my Mac when viewed with the Canon software (Canon Digital Photo Professional and the Canon Image Browser).

However, when I view them in Adobe Lightroom or Apple Preview, they look flat, dull and boring.

You need to understand better what a RAW file is.

In every raw file there is a jpeg preview. This jpeg preview is what is shown on the back of the camera and im betting the jpeg preview is what the canon software is showing because the preview will load faster.

You also should know that cameras so some basic image processing when they make a jpeg image.

So yes the image on the camera screen will look different from the saved raw file.

They talk more about what cameras do to jpegs in the Photofocus Podcast Episode #73

The podcast is great you really should subscribe and listen to it often.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

What are the colorspace settings for everything involved? Camera and softwares?

 

[mikeyp69]

Sorry mate, but you are wrong here. If it was an operating system colour settings issue, then the rendering problem would also show with both Canon Image Browser and Lightroom. As the images are fine with Canon Image Browser, and not with LR or Preview, then is cannot be an OS issue. BTW - I am using a Snow Leopard on Mac not Windows.

...


Thats an interesting point. Well as I am learning LR, this will be an issue and a frustrating one at that too. I guess what I am after are some stock LR settings that replicates the rendering in the Canon Imaging SW. Any tips on where to get this?

You're under the assumption that Canon also gets colour settings from the operating system. Different programs do things differently. I know Lightroom does get the current colour profile from the operating system, and I also know that Lightroom doesn't apply any modifications or interpretations to a JPEG image. If Lightroom isn't showing your JPEG like another program then it is still a colour setting problem as the only modifications that Lightroom does is convert the JPEG to the display profile before displaying, and that profile comes from the OS. I know for a fact that the last version of Nikon Capture NX I used did not do this, which would lead to a situation where the Lightroom is actually right and the other program wrong (assuming assuming your OS display profile is set correctly).

You didn't answer the clarification by the way. Do JPEGs look wrong in Lightroom?


As for presets. I'm at a loss here. It's a very personal thing. A lot of people change to Lightroom because they are not satisfied with their current program. I am like that and I have never had the intention of trying to emulate Nikon Capture's colour and tone in Lightroom because it looked to my eyes.

Garbz

Thx for the reply. You make some good points which I'll go away and do some reasearch on. When you say colour profiles, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean the "Display Profiles" under Display in System Preferences on Snow Leopard? Because if you do, then changing these affects the display of ALL apps running. If not, perhaps you could elaborate?

Yes I am having the same issue with CR2 & JPG, as per the last line of my original post.

Many thx !

M.

 

[mikeyp69]

I am finding that the images I take look great on the LCD. They also also look great on my Mac when viewed with the Canon software (Canon Digital Photo Professional and the Canon Image Browser).

However, when I view them in Adobe Lightroom or Apple Preview, they look flat, dull and boring.

You need to understand better what a RAW file is.

In every raw file there is a jpeg preview. This jpeg preview is what is shown on the back of the camera and im betting the jpeg preview is what the canon software is showing because the preview will load faster.

You also should know that cameras so some basic image processing when they make a jpeg image.

So yes the image on the camera screen will look different from the saved raw file.

They talk more about what cameras do to jpegs in the Photofocus Podcast Episode #73

The podcast is great you really should subscribe and listen to it often.

Light Guru - Yes I understand what a RAW file is and am aware that it contains a JPG image along with a plethora of metadata etc.

I have no issue with the camera screen (which is brill); my issue is purely on the computer where the images look great with the Canon S/W installed on my Mac and dull on Lightroom on the same Mac.

As a relative newbie to LR I can't help feeling dissappointed that by default, the images are not displayed in a similar way as when viewed with the Canon S/W installed on the same machine. My LR trial expires soon, so I'll be buying the full version and will pursue this with Adobe support and see where that leads me.

In the mean time, thx for the podcast pointer - will listen to it later today.

 

[mikeyp69]

What are the colorspace settings for everything involved? Camera and softwares?

RGBs on camera and LR.

 

[Garbz]

Ok it's a colour management issue, probably arising from Apple's very fundamental change to how ColorSync works in Snow Leopard.

Do you calibrate your monitor? If so what gamma do you calibrate to? 1.8 or 2.2?
What is the nature of the differences between the colour? Can you open the same photo in Lightroom, and DPP side by side and take a screenshot so we can see the differences.
What are your colour profiles for your system display as set in ColourSync? sRGB on Camera is irrelevant for RAW files, and sRGB is irrelevant for Lightroom as the profile is only ever applied at export. Lightroom should be getting the current monitor profile from ColourSync.

I'm willing to bet that the fact that Adobe has it's own colour management built into its programs vs Apple's Colour Sync or WindowsCM colour engines, combined with the recent change in ColourSync may have thrown out some working setting that needs changing now. Searching for Snow Leopard Colour Management reveals 1 site explaining how it works and 1000 showing people are having problems.