CANON 7D vs NIKON D7000

[mjhoward]

The problem comes in when you're using RAW. In RAW mode on Burst it only manages 15 frames before it starts to slow down (to around 2-3fps). Yes, that's still sufficient...but the D7000 only gets off 1/5 of that probably before it starts slowing down. For people doing Sports photography that's not sufficient...

I get 14 Frames at 6fps on 14-bit RAW + Fine JPEG before the buffer fills and it gets around 1fps. Unless you've got absolutely horrible timing on hitting that shutter, it's plenty for most people.

Anybody who thinks the D7000 is anywhere near the same league as the 7D has not used both bodies. And definitely hasn't used both of them for an extended period of time.

You are clearly misinformed. Is it the higher dynamic range of the D7K that doesn't put it in the same league? Or perhaps the larger sensor? Maybe it is the better metering and flash system? Sure the 7D has its strengths, but you might want to take off the Canon fanboi blinders and realize the strenghts of the D7K as well. If ergonomics is your argument, its a highly subjective one and my experience has shown Nikon to have better ergonomics. Your experience clearly differs.

 

[flea77]

If you are a huge fan of shooting in dark situations between the 7D and D7000 I would say the processing power of the 7D will keep it in check and between the 7D and D7000 there might not be much difference.

Actually, in dark areas is where the D7000 will shine, with it's superior latitude and much better high ISO performance.

Even D7000 features a new 2,016-segment RGB light metering system, it still suffers from over exposure in a very bright lit environment and its focusing mode is inaccurate and contains error.
Out of 39 point AF system, it has only 9 cross types while 7D has 19 all of them.

While it is true that the 7D has more cross type sensors, this is only useful at f2.8 whereas the vertical sensors work at other f-stops as well. This actually give the advantage to the D7000. Even if cross types were twice as effective, that gives the 7D 38 lines (19 cross types x2 lines each) where the D7000 would have 48 (9 sensors at 2 lines = 18 lines, plus 30 for a total of 48 lines) with a newer and better metering computer to back them up.

Now you may think that the cross type sensors being better for sports would make the 7D a better sports camera. I disagree. When I shoot sports (Baseball, basketball, football, swimming, cycling, etc) I typically use either a single point or a very small area so the number of points makes no difference at all, but the advanced AF computer on the D7000 can. With huge masses of players at different distances all filling up a frame I use a single point usually to make sure the one with the ball is the one in focus, I sure don't want the other players in focus because a few cross type focus points suddenly decided that player is the one to watch.

Allan

 

[bobbyknight]

If you are a huge fan of shooting in dark situations between the 7D and D7000 I would say the processing power of the 7D will keep it in check and between the 7D and D7000 there might not be much difference.

Actually, in dark areas is where the D7000 will shine, with it's superior latitude and much better high ISO performance.

"There might not be of much difference"

Even D7000 features a new 2,016-segment RGB light metering system, it still suffers from over exposure in a very bright lit environment and its focusing mode is inaccurate and contains error.
Out of 39 point AF system, it has only 9 cross types while 7D has 19 all of them.

While it is true that the 7D has more cross type sensors, this is only useful at f2.8 whereas the vertical sensors work at other f-stops as well. This actually give the advantage to the D7000. Even if cross types were twice as effective, that gives the 7D 38 lines (19 cross types x2 lines each) where the D7000 would have 48 (9 sensors at 2 lines = 18 lines, plus 30 for a total of 48 lines) with a newer and better metering computer to back them up.

Now you may think that the cross type sensors being better for sports would make the 7D a better sports camera. I disagree. When I shoot sports (Baseball, basketball, football, swimming, cycling, etc) I typically use either a single point or a very small area so the number of points makes no difference at all, but the advanced AF computer on the D7000 can. With huge masses of players at different distances all filling up a frame I use a single point usually to make sure the one with the ball is the one in focus, I sure don't want the other players in focus because a few cross type focus points suddenly decided that player is the one to watch.

Allan

This is very lame, you're implying here that D7000 is better as a sports camera, have you forgotten 7Ds 8fps continuous shooting pairing with its dual digic 4 processor, you have no idea how powerful it could be.
About the AF systems, I'd say D7000 can at least compete to 7D but not entirely beat it.

 

[DVC Mike]

The Canon 7D is a great camera. I happen to have a Nikon D7000, but I'd be perfectly happy with a 7D.

 

[flea77]

"There might not be of much difference"

Ahh, but there is quite a difference. At least to my eyes.

This is very lame, you're implying here that D7000 is better as a sports camera, have you forgotten 7Ds 8fps continuous shooting pairing with its dual digic 4 processor, you have no idea how powerful it could be.
About the AF systems, I'd say D7000 can at least compete to 7D but not entirely beat it.

No, I am saying that in the real world, the D7000 AF system is as good or better than the 7D when shooting sports. The 7D has the advantage in FPS, the D7000 has the advantage in high ISO, the 7D has the advantage in better build, the D7000 has the advantage in dual card slots, etc etc etc.

Allan

 

[DerekSalem]

Anybody who thinks the D7000 is anywhere near the same league as the 7D has not used both bodies. And definitely hasn't used both of them for an extended period of time.

There is A LOT more to comparing camera bodies than what you read on a specifications list or see on a chart.


I agree that the 7000 and 60D are similar, but the 7D doesn't belong in that mix.

I certainly don't mean to dump on your personal choice of bodies, but I will have to disagree. You can check out:



Canon 7D vs Nikon D7000 - Flammable Comparison

Nikon D7000 vs. Canon EOS 7D - Could it be a 7D Killer? - DigitalRev.com

Nikon D7000 Vs Canon 7D - It's Not a Fair Contest Between Two Very Good Digital SLRs

It seems an aweful lot of people (including me) disagree with you and that the 7D is indeed a direct competitor to the D7000, in some cases being better than the 7D, in some cases not. Most of this will be a matter of personal choice, but to infer that the 7D is somehow in a league above the D7000 and is too good to directly compare, well that is just fantasy.

Allan

Uhh...once again the 7D was made with a very specific purpose in mind: Sports Photography. Try photographing sports with both bodies and find out they're not even *remotely* in the same class.

8fps burst is the second highest burst in the game (with the 1D-series beating it at 10fps). The D300s can burst at 8fps but only if you buy the "power pack" and put in an higher performance battery or connect it to the wall for power. *FULL* weather-sealing (which becomes necessary for many sporting events). Better type of noise (they're almost on par in terms of low-light ability...but the noise that the D7000 puts out is *very* hard to correct whereas I can quite easily correct the noise my 7D puts out at ISO12800). CompactFlash card. No fighting it CF still takes the cake in terms of memory cards. Full Magnesium-alloy body...not just the frame. The *LENS MOUNT* isn't even magnesium-alloy on the D7000...do we not think that's important??

I'm not hating on the D7000, but it's not in the same league as the 7D for Sports photography or any type of photography that utilizes it's strengths. The 60D is more on par with the D7000.

 

[DerekSalem]

The problem comes in when you're using RAW. In RAW mode on Burst it only manages 15 frames before it starts to slow down (to around 2-3fps). Yes, that's still sufficient...but the D7000 only gets off 1/5 of that probably before it starts slowing down. For people doing Sports photography that's not sufficient...

I get 14 Frames at 6fps on 14-bit RAW + Fine JPEG before the buffer fills and it gets around 1fps. Unless you've got absolutely horrible timing on hitting that shutter, it's plenty for most people.

Anybody who thinks the D7000 is anywhere near the same league as the 7D has not used both bodies. And definitely hasn't used both of them for an extended period of time.

You are clearly misinformed. Is it the higher dynamic range of the D7K that doesn't put it in the same league? Or perhaps the larger sensor? Maybe it is the better metering and flash system? Sure the 7D has its strengths, but you might want to take off the Canon fanboi blinders and realize the strenghts of the D7K as well. If ergonomics is your argument, its a highly subjective one and my experience has shown Nikon to have better ergonomics. Your experience clearly differs.

Hmm...much of your post is contrary to what almost all reviews say...I'll break it down:

14 frames of RAW+JPG? Really? I haven't seen a single reviewer that has ever gotten over 10 (usually lower). I'll admit, I don't use RAW+JPG so I never tested it when I was playing with the D7K but even shooting *JUST* RAW I didn't break 10fps.

As for the rest...what? Considering mostly every review on the planet (and my own tests and research) have found the IQ of both camera bodies to be nearly identical (both using kit lenses...which makes the tests somewhat skewed) I have a hard time caring about the slightly larger sensor (the Nikon is 23.6x15.6 and I think the Canon is like 22.9x14.7 or something). Better metering and flash system? I'm sorry...what? What exactly is better about the metering and flash system...since I've never seen a difference and nor has any reviewer that I've read. Higher Dynamic range? I'm also almost positive this isn't true...it just includes higher saturation and vibrance by default.

In terms of ergonomics...very few people would agree with you that the Nikon is better in terms of form. Even the video flea keeps linking talks about the better form of the 7D multiple times. They *also* continuously say that the 7D focuses faster and better. He says he doesn't have the facts to back it up but the 7D feels much more responsive and focuses almost instantaneously.

 

[cfusionpm]

Now you may think that the cross type sensors being better for sports would make the 7D a better sports camera. I disagree. When I shoot sports (Baseball, basketball, football, swimming, cycling, etc) I typically use either a single point or a very small area so the number of points makes no difference at all, but the advanced AF computer on the D7000 can. With huge masses of players at different distances all filling up a frame I use a single point usually to make sure the one with the ball is the one in focus, I sure don't want the other players in focus because a few cross type focus points suddenly decided that player is the one to watch.

There's a setting for that in the 7D. C.Fn III: Autofocus/Drive, option #3: AI Servo AF tracking method.

Choices are Main focus point priority ("The active AF point will switch to the main focus point and start focusing the closer subject. Convenient when you always want to focus the closest subject")

and Continuous AF track priority ("Any closer subject appearing in the picture will be ignored as an obstruction. The main focus point does not take priority, so the tracking of the target can continue and switch to an adjacent AF point based on the preceeding focusing result. Convenient when obsticals such as telephone poles go in front of the target subject.")

Found on pg 210 of the EOS 7D manual.

 

[flea77]

Uhh...once again the 7D was made with a very specific purpose in mind: Sports Photography. Try photographing sports with both bodies and find out they're not even *remotely* in the same class.

I have, thank you very much. My wife's boss uses 7Ds and I have used them.

8fps burst is the second highest burst in the game (with the 1D-series beating it at 10fps). The D300s can burst at 8fps but only if you buy the "power pack" and put in an higher performance battery or connect it to the wall for power.

I have several times acknowledged the 7Ds superiority at FPS, it is just not that important to me. Some how I still manage to get my shots with two less FPS. Would I like the D7000 to have more? Sure, why not. Is it more important to me than high ISO performance? No way!

*FULL* weather-sealing (which becomes necessary for many sporting events).

I have never seen this as necessary. When it is pouring down rain, I will use the correct rain gear for myself, and my equipment, just like I have done since the mid eighties.

Better type of noise (they're almost on par in terms of low-light ability...but the noise that the D7000 puts out is *very* hard to correct whereas I can quite easily correct the noise my 7D puts out at ISO12800).

Completely disagree. The noise I saw from the 7D looked like abstract art. My D7000 puts out fantastic images from 6400, and useable from 12800 with one pass of Topaz Denoise 5 (for sports, weddings and commercial is a whole different story with the D7000 still one stop better). Admittedly the images from 25600 look pretty poor, even after noise reduction, I would test the 7D at that ISO but since it can't go that high, I can't.

CompactFlash card. No fighting it CF still takes the cake in terms of memory cards.

I will take dual SD over single CF any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Automatic, real time backup. A card completely fails you in your 7D right after a game, you look like a moron to your client. A card completely fails me right after a game, I laugh, whip out the second card and carry on. And forget sports here, what about a wedding?

Full Magnesium-alloy body...not just the frame. The *LENS MOUNT* isn't even magnesium-alloy on the D7000...do we not think that's important??

Not going to argue that it sure is something I would like, but then I never had a lens come off my FG, FA, FM, N90s, D70, D80, D90 or D7000 and I use 80-200s sometimes with 1.4 teles on them, 24-70 2.8s, etc, so I am not real sure how much I would really need it.

I'm not hating on the D7000, but it's not in the same league as the 7D for Sports photography or any type of photography that utilizes it's strengths. The 60D is more on par with the D7000.

And I am not hating on the 7D, but virtually every review I have read, and my personal experience with the 7D and D7000, say the two are very evenly matched. If you disagree with me and all the reviews I linked to, that is your right of course.

Of course we probably should not even get into the D7000's superior metering, superior AF computer, or it's superior latitude with no speed penalty.

As I have always maintained, they are both excellent cameras, and they both can do an excellent job. Both have pros and cons, and neither is clearly in a league above the other. In my opinion, anyone who thinks one clearly stomps the other is simply a fanboi.

Allan

 

[flea77]

As for the rest...what? Considering mostly every review on the planet (and my own tests and research) have found the IQ of both camera bodies to be nearly identical (both using kit lenses...which makes the tests somewhat skewed) I have a hard time caring about the slightly larger sensor (the Nikon is 23.6x15.6 and I think the Canon is like 22.9x14.7 or something).

Yep, I agree, right up to ISO 6400 (see the video review I quoted you for a side by side comparison). In that review it is so small it is hard to see the 6400 differences, but the 12800 is very obvious even in that little tiny video.

Better metering and flash system? I'm sorry...what? What exactly is better about the metering and flash system...since I've never seen a difference and nor has any reviewer that I've read.

D7000 uses the world's first 2,016 segment RGB meter. The 7D uses a 63 zone system with color measurement (probably a B&W meter with luminance).

As for the flash system, I really don't know as I have never used Canon's flash system. The Nikon CLS is really cool and all but I am more of a manual flash kind of guy.

In terms of ergonomics...very few people would agree with you that the Nikon is better in terms of form. Even the video flea keeps linking talks about the better form of the 7D multiple times. They *also* continuously say that the 7D focuses faster and better. He says he doesn't have the facts to back it up but the 7D feels much more responsive and focuses almost instantaneously.

Ergonomics, that is VERY personal and subjective. For me, I would rather dig a ditch to earn the money to buy a D7000 to use rather than be given a 7D for free. I hate the ergonomics of all Canon equipment and have since the AE-1 Program. I am not saying that means Nikon has superior ergonomics, I am saying that means Nikon has superior ergonomics for me.

I believe the video states he thinks the 7D feels faster but he has no proof to back that up. Of course feeling is part of what makes you like or dislike a camera, but then it would depend on lens speed as well would it not? Not once did I hear him say the Nikon was slow, or that the 7D was substantially faster.

I am sorry you can not see that the D7000 has some advantages over the 7D, but it seems you have no problem seeing the advantages the 7D has over the D7000. Interesting you own the 7D is it not?

Allan

 

[flea77]

There's a setting for that in the 7D. C.Fn III: Autofocus/Drive, option #3: AI Servo AF tracking method.

I never meant to imply the 7D could not do what I did. I was mearly pointing out that when you set your AF to a very small area or one single point for sports photography like I do, the number of cross type sensors becomes a non-issue. This means in sports, the way I shoot them, the 7D is actually at a disadvantage to the D7000 as far as AF goes (the AF computer on the D7000 is more advanced, mainly because it is a year and a half newer, than the one on the 7D).

Allan

 

[prodigy2k7]

D7000 uses the world's first 2,016 segment RGB meter. The 7D uses a 63 zone system with color measurement (probably a B&W meter with luminance).

Its dual layer, 63 zone system, pretty sure its not B&W. The auto focus system is tied into the metering system as well. Even if you only use 1 auto focus point, all of the actual points are always active and relay information to the metering system on whats in focus, and what isn't. The metering system is able to better identify the subject and how much of the frame it takes up etc...

 

[AverageJoe]

Why isn't the Fun Saver up for the poll?

 

[cfusionpm]

I never meant to imply the 7D could not do what I did. I was mearly pointing out that when you set your AF to a very small area or one single point for sports photography like I do, the number of cross type sensors becomes a non-issue. This means in sports, the way I shoot them, the 7D is actually at a disadvantage to the D7000 as far as AF goes (the AF computer on the D7000 is more advanced, mainly because it is a year and a half newer, than the one on the 7D).

Allan

So does that mean the D7000 has better and more accurate AF than the 1DmkIV or D3s? Since it's more than a year newer than both of those, it should be better, right? Going by that logic?

In all seriousness though, I think it would be interesting to see some kind of AF comparison tests.

 

[Destin]

Just a thought:

the 60D is a much better action photography camera than the D7000. If you shoot Large/Fine JPEG, the d7000 fills up its buffer after about 15 to 18 frames. Then it drops to 1 frame per second. the Canon 60D on the other hand will keep on firing at full frame rate for a significantly longer period of time. don’t be misled by the marketing hype. In order to get the 100 frames per second on the D7000, you have to reduce image quality.

I wanna know how often anyone really needs to shoot 18 frames at full speed. I can't think of a sport where that is needed. You usually go for a burst of MAYBE 5-10 frames. Unless of course your just holding the shutter down for the entire play like a moron.