Canon or Nikon?

[Neil S.]

See now your actually helping lol.

That is the point of these kinds of threads remember.

 

[Petraio Prime]

See now your actually helping lol.

That is the point of these kinds of threads remember.

Yeah, a used 1Ds or 1Ds-II would make a lot of sense.

 

[shaunly]

let me try....

If your looking to buy a new D300s/7d, I'd say find a good used 5Dmk2 or D700, it'll be just about the same price. Plus you get FF sensor and all the up to date features.

 

[Derrel]

Nikon D3 / D300 Vs. Canon

A good start on system vs. system comparisons, but a few strengths of both systems were overlooked by Mr. Reichmann. He failed to contrast the two systems' basic concept of modal display and multi-function controls that Canon invented with the EOS system, and the single-use, single function button and control systems that Nikon has developed. One might liken Canon to the digital watch, Nikon to the analog hands-and-face watch approaches. (According to Herb Keppler, almost all older Japanese camera designers invariably liked and wore analog watches, which show one's place in time within a 12-hour cycle. A digital readout watch tells you what time it is, with no other surrounding information, in what one might describe as a context-free environment.)

Also, and it's rather funny, but Reichmann's complaint about pressing the Nikon autofocus switch on the body "several times a day" is simply hilarious! I have NEVER, not even ONCE, accidentally moved that switch. Why? Well, he's a long-term Canon user and a landscape photographer, and the Canon system's depth of field preview button is located in the same exact location as the Nikon AF-Manual focus switch!! The Nikon DOF preview button has been located on the right hand side of the body front since 1959,with the original F body. That means one can manually adjust the lens focus with the left hand on the lens, and then, as one is focusing, press the DOF plunger in with the middle finger of the left hand. On a Canon, one cannot perform even this very simple operation of focusing, stopping down the lens diaphragm,and adjusting the focus. What's funny is that a long-time Canon shooter hits the wrong button,multiple times a day, fumbling for that awkward, afterthought location Canon came up with when they slapped together the EOS system back in the mid 1980's. For those who learned photography many years ago, focusing with the lens stopped down is second nature,and Nikon's have allowed photographers to continue working pretty much the same way as they always have been, but requiring one to use the LEFT hand to press the DOF button means that a Canon user has to remove his or her hand from the focusing ring on almost all lenses, which is an ergonomic nightmare.

THe other differnce between Canon and Nikon is the 4-button, dual-function controls Canon invented when EOS was new...four buttons, each with dual functions....and a shutter adjiustment and an f/stop adjustment button that swap functions, depending on the exposure mode the camera is set to...one mode,the front wheel adjust the shutter, then the next mode it's adjusting the f/stop, and in the next mode it's back to adjusting the shutter speed...the SHUTTER and f/STOP CONTROLS SWAP FUNCTIONS!!! That means that if one forgets which mode one is in, a simple movement of the controls, either one, will adjust ghe WRONG parameter.

Nikons do not work that way: the rear dial adjusts the SHUTTER speed, the front wheel adjusts the f/stop--in ALL exposure modes. There is no "guessing" or "remembering" with a Nikon camera...no accidentally adjusting the camera the absolute wrong way.
I liken Canon's system to a car that has gas, and brake (two controls) that are absolutely critical with an automatic transmission,multi-gear car. With a Canon car, the function of the brake and the gas would flip-flop or yo-yo, as the car were shifting through the gears of 1,2,3,4....just like it does in A-M-S-P modes on a Canon camera.
If you suddenly need BRAKES, you never,ever want to stomp on the brakes and find out that it's actually the GAS, because you're in T, for Top Gear.

The four buttons on a consumer Canon controlling two functions EACH...same thing...Nikon goes with more single-function control dials and buttons...it's easier and simpler to ALWAYS have the SAME function paired with a control button or dial, no matter what exposure mode the camera happens to be in.

There are a few other system differences as well. But Reichmann's article is a good start,and a good basic primer of a long-time Canon EOS user picking up and owning his first Nikon camera in 15 to 20 years...but I am still amused that he hits the AF-M switch on the body multiple times a day. That's a cute example showing his long-time Canon muscle memory habit. I did the same thing when I bought my first automatic transmission car after having driven a sports car with a 4-speed for 5-6 years: the first morning with the new automatic transmission car,I was kind of running late for work, so I jumped into the car, and I hurriedly moved my leg to press a non-existent clutch pedal to the floor...but there was no clutch pedal!! I hurt my knee as my foot and leg slammed into the floorboard! Hilarious!

I dunno...I still shot my 5D as my main camera, since it's full-frame and I own a decent do-everything 24-105-L zoom, plus their 135mm f/2-L,135 Soft Focus, 85/1.8, 50/1.4, 70-200/2.8 IS-USM,and a Sigma 18-125 and 18-55 Canon and 20D and SIgma 80-400 OS for Canon mount, and that fulfills my current needs pretty well. But I own more Nikon stuff, and my two-year trial to see if I could go Canon "all the way" was a resounding NO...I still am unwilling to commit to the Canon way of doing most things...to me, it's just not the way I want MY cameras and gear to function...but then again, I have many years of doing things differently, and I prefer the ergonomics of the Nikon system more. For *me* there are a zillion little differences where the Nikon approach is the one I prefer. I spent around $10,000 to give Canon a legitimate, well-rounded trial, but it failed the test for ME. For other people, like Reichmann, finding an often used control in the opposite place, or having the same location do the "wrong thing" can be a big deal.

Both companies are engaged in battle, but neither is willing to take one another on head-to-head, as of late....they did that for decades with the F and F1, then the F1(n) and F2, FE-2 versus AE-1 Program, etc.etc. Today, both companies are pressing their own,unique advantages and their own marketing ideas about what their products represent. I find it amusing, all the people who will denigrate one syetm over another, and have not spent a DIME of their own money, or assembled an 8- to 10-lens, two-body system to at least just try out "the competition" for a couple of years. ALl they do is it around and defend their own brand with bsically no idea whatsoever of how the other company's stuff is engineered, or how it might be better or better-engineered or just more convenient.

Case in point: AUTO ISO. Canon cannot seem to figure out how to implement it the way people actually want to use it. Pentax and Nikon are both streets ahead of Canon. Canon canot seem to figure out that that stupid Direct Print Button (hilarious!) is not what people want--they'd rather have AUTO ISO that actually is useful! Or, as MR point out--why does a $7,500 pro Canon 1Ds-III have voice recording, but no $3 speaker built-in to the camera for playback of voice recording the camera can make? All the Nikon's with voice annotation have both a microphone AND a speaker, for playback.

The list could go on...Canon has a big following, no doubt. Most of their users have never used anything else, or are too young to remember when they were kind of second-rate. I remember a college newspaper photo friend of mine who had about $18,000 mid-1980's dollars invested in the Canon system, with L-glass from 17mm to 300/2.8,and two brand-new T-90's and two F1-N bodies...about two months after he bought the T90's to start his professional, after-college career, Canon dropped the FD mount and went all EOS...the poor guy was crushed...his "investment" had just been made obsolete, right as he was graduating from college. That kind of company philosophy is exemplified in the Direct Print Button and the Canon printer division's existence today, 25 odd years later. I might feel the same if I were a Leica R-system user with multiple $4,000 lenses, when my company told me they were abandoning my camera brand and lens mount, thus rendering my gear outmoded, and obsolete, just like that. Olympus did that to its users. Minolta did that to its users. Konica did that to its users. Miranda and Petri did that to their users. Canon did that to its users. Bronica did that to its users. Nikon has never done that to its users...

Anyway...this discussion is always good for lots of heat and sparks!

 

[Petraio Prime]

Nikon D3 / D300 Vs. Canon

A good start on system vs. system comparisons, but a few strengths of both systems were overlooked by Mr. Reichmann. He failed to contrast the two systems' basic concept of modal display and multi-function controls that Canon invented with the EOS system, and the single-use, single function button and control systems that Nikon has developed. One might liken Canon to the digital watch, Nikon to the analog hands-and-face watch approaches. (According to Herb Keppler, almost all older Japanese camera designers invariably liked and wore analog watches, which show one's place in time within a 12-hour cycle. A digital readout watch tells you what time it is, with no other surrounding information, in what one might describe as a context-free environment.)

Also, and it's rather funny, but Reichmann's complaint about pressing the Nikon autofocus switch on the body "several times a day" is simply hilarious! I have NEVER, not even ONCE, accidentally moved that switch. Why? Well, he's a long-term Canon user and a landscape photographer, and the Canon system's depth of field preview button is located in the same exact location as the Nikon AF-Manual focus switch!! The Nikon DOF preview button has been located on the right hand side of the body front since 1959,with the original F body. That means one can manually adjust the lens focus with the left hand on the lens, and then, as one is focusing, press the DOF plunger in with the middle finger of the left hand. On a Canon, one cannot perform even this very simple operation of focusing, stopping down the lens diaphragm,and adjusting the focus. What's funny is that a long-time Canon shooter hits the wrong button,multiple times a day, fumbling for that awkward, afterthought location Canon came up with when they slapped together the EOS system back in the mid 1980's. For those who learned photography many years ago, focusing with the lens stopped down is second nature,and Nikon's have allowed photographers to continue working pretty much the same way as they always have been, but requiring one to use the LEFT hand to press the DOF button means that a Canon user has to remove his or her hand from the focusing ring on almost all lenses, which is an ergonomic nightmare.

THe other differnce between Canon and Nikon is the 4-button, dual-function controls Canon invented when EOS was new...four buttons, each with dual functions....and a shutter adjiustment and an f/stop adjustment button that swap functions, depending on the exposure mode the camera is set to...one mode,the front wheel adjust the shutter, then the next mode it's adjusting the f/stop, and in the next mode it's back to adjusting the shutter speed...the SHUTTER and f/STOP CONTROLS SWAP FUNCTIONS!!! That means that if one forgets which mode one is in, a simple movement of the controls, either one, will adjust ghe WRONG parameter.

Nikons do not work that way: the rear dial adjusts the SHUTTER speed, the front wheel adjusts the f/stop--in ALL exposure modes. There is no "guessing" or "remembering" with a Nikon camera...no accidentally adjusting the camera the absolute wrong way.
I liken Canon's system to a car that has gas, and brake (two controls) that are absolutely critical with an automatic transmission,multi-gear car. With a Canon car, the function of the brake and the gas would flip-flop or yo-yo, as the car were shifting through the gears of 1,2,3,4....just like it does in A-M-S-P modes on a Canon camera.
If you suddenly need BRAKES, you never,ever want to stomp on the brakes and find out that it's actually the GAS, because you're in T, for Top Gear.

The four buttons on a consumer Canon controlling two functions EACH...same thing...Nikon goes with more single-function control dials and buttons...it's easier and simpler to ALWAYS have the SAME function paired with a control button or dial, no matter what exposure mode the camera happens to be in.

There are a few other system differences as well. But Reichmann's article is a good start,and a good basic primer of a long-time Canon EOS user picking up and owning his first Nikon camera in 15 to 20 years...but I am still amused that he hits the AF-M switch on the body multiple times a day. That's a cute example showing his long-time Canon muscle memory habit. I did the same thing when I bought my first automatic transmission car after having driven a sports car with a 4-speed for 5-6 years: the first morning with the new automatic transmission car,I was kind of running late for work, so I jumped into the car, and I hurriedly moved my leg to press a non-existent clutch pedal to the floor...but there was no clutch pedal!! I hurt my knee as my foot and leg slammed into the floorboard! Hilarious!

I dunno...I still shot my 5D as my main camera, since it's full-frame and I own a decent do-everything 24-105-L zoom, plus their 135mm f/2-L,135 Soft Focus, 85/1.8, 50/1.4, 70-200/2.8 IS-USM,and a Sigma 18-125 and 18-55 Canon and 20D and SIgma 80-400 OS for Canon mount, and that fulfills my current needs pretty well. But I own more Nikon stuff, and my two-year trial to see if I could go Canon "all the way" was a resounding NO...I still am unwilling to commit to the Canon way of doing most things...to me, it's just not the way I want MY cameras and gear to function...but then again, I have many years of doing things differently, and I prefer the ergonomics of the Nikon system more. For *me* there are a zillion little differences where the Nikon approach is the one I prefer. I spent around $10,000 to give Canon a legitimate, well-rounded trial, but it failed the test for ME. For other people, like Reichmann, finding an often used control in the opposite place, or having the same location do the "wrong thing" can be a big deal.

Both companies are engaged in battle, but neither is willing to take one another on head-to-head, as of late....they did that for decades with the F and F1, then the F1(n) and F2, FE-2 versus AE-1 Program, etc.etc. Today, both companies are pressing their own,unique advantages and their own marketing ideas about what their products represent. I find it amusing, all the people who will denigrate one syetm over another, and have not spent a DIME of their own money, or assembled an 8- to 10-lens, two-body system to at least just try out "the competition" for a couple of years. ALl they do is it around and defend their own brand with bsically no idea whatsoever of how the other company's stuff is engineered, or how it might be better or better-engineered or just more convenient.

Case in point: AUTO ISO. Canon cannot seem to figure out how to implement it the way people actually want to use it. Pentax and Nikon are both streets ahead of Canon. Canon canot seem to figure out that that stupid Direct Print Button (hilarious!) is not what people want--they'd rather have AUTO ISO that actually is useful! Or, as MR point out--why does a $7,500 pro Canon 1Ds-III have voice recording, but no $3 speaker built-in to the camera for playback of voice recording the camera can make? All the Nikon's with voice annotation have both a microphone AND a speaker, for playback.

The list could go on...Canon has a big following, no doubt. Most of their users have never used anything else, or are too young to remember when they were kind of second-rate. I remember a college newspaper photo friend of mine who had about $18,000 mid-1980's dollars invested in the Canon system, with L-glass from 17mm to 300/2.8,and two brand-new T-90's and two F1-N bodies...about two months after he bought the T90's to start his professional, after-college career, Canon dropped the FD mount and went all EOS...the poor guy was crushed...his "investment" had just been made obsolete, right as he was graduating from college. That kind of company philosophy is exemplified in the Direct Print Button and the Canon printer division's existence today, 25 odd years later. I might feel the same if I were a Leica R-system user with multiple $4,000 lenses, when my company told me they were abandoning my camera brand and lens mount, thus rendering my gear outmoded, and obsolete, just like that. Olympus did that to its users. Minolta did that to its users. Konica did that to its users. Miranda and Petri did that to their users. Canon did that to its users. Bronica did that to its users. Nikon has never done that to its users...

Anyway...this discussion is always good for lots of heat and sparks!

So, how many people were like your friend? Very few.

And how many of those early 1960s lenses are still being used by Nikon owners? You can pull the bandage off slowly and it will hurt less, or you can rip it off all at once, but either way, it's got to go...eventually.

 

[shaunly]

Nikon D3 / D300 Vs. Canon

A good start on system vs. system comparisons, but a few strengths of both systems were overlooked by Mr. Reichmann. He failed to contrast the two systems' basic concept of modal display and multi-function controls that Canon invented with the EOS system, and the single-use, single function button and control systems that Nikon has developed. One might liken Canon to the digital watch, Nikon to the analog hands-and-face watch approaches. (According to Herb Keppler, almost all older Japanese camera designers invariably liked and wore analog watches, which show one's place in time within a 12-hour cycle. A digital readout watch tells you what time it is, with no other surrounding information, in what one might describe as a context-free environment.)

Also, and it's rather funny, but Reichmann's complaint about pressing the Nikon autofocus switch on the body "several times a day" is simply hilarious! I have NEVER, not even ONCE, accidentally moved that switch. Why? Well, he's a long-term Canon user and a landscape photographer, and the Canon system's depth of field preview button is located in the same exact location as the Nikon AF-Manual focus switch!! The Nikon DOF preview button has been located on the right hand side of the body front since 1959,with the original F body. That means one can manually adjust the lens focus with the left hand on the lens, and then, as one is focusing, press the DOF plunger in with the middle finger of the left hand. On a Canon, one cannot perform even this very simple operation of focusing, stopping down the lens diaphragm,and adjusting the focus. What's funny is that a long-time Canon shooter hits the wrong button,multiple times a day, fumbling for that awkward, afterthought location Canon came up with when they slapped together the EOS system back in the mid 1980's. For those who learned photography many years ago, focusing with the lens stopped down is second nature,and Nikon's have allowed photographers to continue working pretty much the same way as they always have been, but requiring one to use the LEFT hand to press the DOF button means that a Canon user has to remove his or her hand from the focusing ring on almost all lenses, which is an ergonomic nightmare.

THe other differnce between Canon and Nikon is the 4-button, dual-function controls Canon invented when EOS was new...four buttons, each with dual functions....and a shutter adjiustment and an f/stop adjustment button that swap functions, depending on the exposure mode the camera is set to...one mode,the front wheel adjust the shutter, then the next mode it's adjusting the f/stop, and in the next mode it's back to adjusting the shutter speed...the SHUTTER and f/STOP CONTROLS SWAP FUNCTIONS!!! That means that if one forgets which mode one is in, a simple movement of the controls, either one, will adjust ghe WRONG parameter.

Nikons do not work that way: the rear dial adjusts the SHUTTER speed, the front wheel adjusts the f/stop--in ALL exposure modes. There is no "guessing" or "remembering" with a Nikon camera...no accidentally adjusting the camera the absolute wrong way.
I liken Canon's system to a car that has gas, and brake (two controls) that are absolutely critical with an automatic transmission,multi-gear car. With a Canon car, the function of the brake and the gas would flip-flop or yo-yo, as the car were shifting through the gears of 1,2,3,4....just like it does in A-M-S-P modes on a Canon camera.
If you suddenly need BRAKES, you never,ever want to stomp on the brakes and find out that it's actually the GAS, because you're in T, for Top Gear.

The four buttons on a consumer Canon controlling two functions EACH...same thing...Nikon goes with more single-function control dials and buttons...it's easier and simpler to ALWAYS have the SAME function paired with a control button or dial, no matter what exposure mode the camera happens to be in.

There are a few other system differences as well. But Reichmann's article is a good start,and a good basic primer of a long-time Canon EOS user picking up and owning his first Nikon camera in 15 to 20 years...but I am still amused that he hits the AF-M switch on the body multiple times a day. That's a cute example showing his long-time Canon muscle memory habit. I did the same thing when I bought my first automatic transmission car after having driven a sports car with a 4-speed for 5-6 years: the first morning with the new automatic transmission car,I was kind of running late for work, so I jumped into the car, and I hurriedly moved my leg to press a non-existent clutch pedal to the floor...but there was no clutch pedal!! I hurt my knee as my foot and leg slammed into the floorboard! Hilarious!

I dunno...I still shot my 5D as my main camera, since it's full-frame and I own a decent do-everything 24-105-L zoom, plus their 135mm f/2-L,135 Soft Focus, 85/1.8, 50/1.4, 70-200/2.8 IS-USM,and a Sigma 18-125 and 18-55 Canon and 20D and SIgma 80-400 OS for Canon mount, and that fulfills my current needs pretty well. But I own more Nikon stuff, and my two-year trial to see if I could go Canon "all the way" was a resounding NO...I still am unwilling to commit to the Canon way of doing most things...to me, it's just not the way I want MY cameras and gear to function...but then again, I have many years of doing things differently, and I prefer the ergonomics of the Nikon system more. For *me* there are a zillion little differences where the Nikon approach is the one I prefer. I spent around $10,000 to give Canon a legitimate, well-rounded trial, but it failed the test for ME. For other people, like Reichmann, finding an often used control in the opposite place, or having the same location do the "wrong thing" can be a big deal.

Both companies are engaged in battle, but neither is willing to take one another on head-to-head, as of late....they did that for decades with the F and F1, then the F1(n) and F2, FE-2 versus AE-1 Program, etc.etc. Today, both companies are pressing their own,unique advantages and their own marketing ideas about what their products represent. I find it amusing, all the people who will denigrate one syetm over another, and have not spent a DIME of their own money, or assembled an 8- to 10-lens, two-body system to at least just try out "the competition" for a couple of years. ALl they do is it around and defend their own brand with bsically no idea whatsoever of how the other company's stuff is engineered, or how it might be better or better-engineered or just more convenient.

Case in point: AUTO ISO. Canon cannot seem to figure out how to implement it the way people actually want to use it. Pentax and Nikon are both streets ahead of Canon. Canon canot seem to figure out that that stupid Direct Print Button (hilarious!) is not what people want--they'd rather have AUTO ISO that actually is useful! Or, as MR point out--why does a $7,500 pro Canon 1Ds-III have voice recording, but no $3 speaker built-in to the camera for playback of voice recording the camera can make? All the Nikon's with voice annotation have both a microphone AND a speaker, for playback.

The list could go on...Canon has a big following, no doubt. Most of their users have never used anything else, or are too young to remember when they were kind of second-rate. I remember a college newspaper photo friend of mine who had about $18,000 mid-1980's dollars invested in the Canon system, with L-glass from 17mm to 300/2.8,and two brand-new T-90's and two F1-N bodies...about two months after he bought the T90's to start his professional, after-college career, Canon dropped the FD mount and went all EOS...the poor guy was crushed...his "investment" had just been made obsolete, right as he was graduating from college. That kind of company philosophy is exemplified in the Direct Print Button and the Canon printer division's existence today, 25 odd years later. I might feel the same if I were a Leica R-system user with multiple $4,000 lenses, when my company told me they were abandoning my camera brand and lens mount, thus rendering my gear outmoded, and obsolete, just like that. Olympus did that to its users. Minolta did that to its users. Konica did that to its users. Miranda and Petri did that to their users. Canon did that to its users. Bronica did that to its users. Nikon has never done that to its users...

Anyway...this discussion is always good for lots of heat and sparks!

You can be sure your tens of thousand of dollars invested in Nikon equipment is going to last! How do we know Canon wont pull the plug again and decide they found another new design.

 

[Petraio Prime]

You can be sure your tens of thousand of dollars invested in Nikon equipment is going to last! How do we know Canon wont pull the plug again and decide they found another new design.

It's not something that needs to be done frequently. In any event, those who had lots of pre-1975 Nikon equipment can't use it effectively on today's models. Just because the mount hasn't changed that doesn't mean the lenses aren't obsolete.

Pentax did it, too late, of course, when they went from screw thread to bayonet.

 

[Polyphony]

THe other differnce between Canon and Nikon is the 4-button, dual-function controls Canon invented when EOS was new...four buttons, each with dual functions....and a shutter adjiustment and an f/stop adjustment button that swap functions, depending on the exposure mode the camera is set to...one mode,the front wheel adjust the shutter, then the next mode it's adjusting the f/stop, and in the next mode it's back to adjusting the shutter speed...the SHUTTER and f/STOP CONTROLS SWAP FUNCTIONS!!! That means that if one forgets which mode one is in, a simple movement of the controls, either one, will adjust ghe WRONG parameter.

Nikons do not work that way: the rear dial adjusts the SHUTTER speed, the front wheel adjusts the f/stop--in ALL exposure modes. There is no "guessing" or "remembering" with a Nikon camera...no accidentally adjusting the camera the absolute wrong way.
I liken Canon's system to a car that has gas, and brake (two controls) that are absolutely critical with an automatic transmission,multi-gear car. With a Canon car, the function of the brake and the gas would flip-flop or yo-yo, as the car were shifting through the gears of 1,2,3,4....just like it does in A-M-S-P modes on a Canon camera.
If you suddenly need BRAKES, you never,ever want to stomp on the brakes and find out that it's actually the GAS, because you're in T, for Top Gear.

The four buttons on a consumer Canon controlling two functions EACH...same thing...Nikon goes with more single-function control dials and buttons...it's easier and simpler to ALWAYS have the SAME function paired with a control button or dial, no matter what exposure mode the camera happens to be in.

You should be a lawyer. You provide great arguments with many supporting facts but from only ONE POINT OF VIEW!!

Try this: The wheel on the Canon makes adjustments based on which mode you are in. If you are in Tv, it adjusts shutter speed. If you are in Av, it adjusts aperture. I don't know about you, but remembering which mode I am in is not a big deal. Also if you forget, there's a large dial on top of the camera that will quickly remind you which mode you are in.

It couldn't be any easier in my opinion. With the Nikon you have to worry about two different wheels? What if I forget which wheel does what? There are no indications on the wheels are there?

A Canon is like a guitar. You can play frets on the E or A string (Tv or Av). Playing the first fret on the E string (wheel) plays an F note (specific shutter speed). Playing the first fret on the A string (wheel) plays an A# (specific aperture). You just have to remember which string you are on.

The bottom line is that these minor differences are so insignificant (read: subjective) that you can't base a Brand vs. Brand argument on them. Human beings are extremely adaptable creatures. It takes a VERY short time for us to get used to different conditions or adapt to small changes. If you like the Nikon layout, good for you. If you like the Canon layout, good for you.

P.S. I don't think this thread should be locked. Nothing wrong with a good argument.

 

[shaunly]

I have a buddy that has the money and likes high end equipments. So when he wanted a professional camera gears, he went out to buy a Canon 1dmk3. He has no background what so ever in photography, but he's a professional artist and has great eyes for things. Anyways... after a few months of using his Canon, he is still fiddling with all the control operations. Still get's a little frustrated and wonder why they design these button the way they do. Still can't remember certain control when I ask him. I had the pleasure of shooting with his camera myself and although it's a great great camera, the controls can be frustrating.

So one day, I showed him my new D700 =D and told him to go shoot with it and give it a try. Right off the bat, he figured out most of the basic control and was adjusting my camera like it's been his. This is coming from Canon user. So point being said is that, yea you can eventually learn those canon button, but it's surely a pain in the butt.

 

[rpm]

i wont add a lot to this as many people like Derrel provides the more technical info that defines these debates.

but one qn, for those that keep saying that the old Nikon lenses dont work on current Nikon cameras, which lenses are you referring to? also which camera models are you referring to? as far as i know apart from the low end models D3000/D5000 (current gen) all the other models carry an auto focus motor. so apart from AI-S (i could be mistaken) lenses which are MF on the current line, they will all auto focus. or am i wrong? further more, why is it that if a lens can only be used in MF does it mean, its not worth it? its not functioning properly? its pointless? the fact that i can get cheaper yet good quality glass within the AF-D range lenses, AI-S lenses over the AF-S lenses regardless of being MF only, is a great option and alternative at a marginal loss of quality.

as someone already said. the fact that they can keep the same mount is a testament to their engineering ability. while their new lenses incorporating internal focusing motors without a mount change. did Canon REALLY have to change mounts? or was it just easier for them? it surely wasnt easier for the customer back during the transition stage to the new mount. if some people insist in looking purely in the past. put yourself in a position where all your lenses and years of investment can no longer be transferred onto a new body cause of a mount change - that wont go down well. dont even lie to yourself. also the chances of someone wanting to buy your gear second-hand at a reasonable price diminishes even further if they do a minimal amount of research of the ramifications of a mount change....lets face it...if Canon chose to do it again. these forums would be plagued by disgruntled Canon owners...

 

[ababysean]

I will give you my very technical decision as to why I choose Nikon.
Are you ready for it?

Here it comes!


I used to work at Gateway (the computer company) and the people I worked with, over half of them had just been laid off from Canon. These people were not the pick of the litter, they were not the best society has to offer, come down to it they were rude and obnoxious and entitled, and just loser of people.

Every time I hear/see the word Canon, I also see images in my head of these not so good people.

I'm sure the Nikon factory is filled with the same people. But at least I do not have an actual image in my head, like I do with the word Canon.

So there you have it.

 

[Petraio Prime]

i wont add a lot to this as many people like Derrel provides the more technical info that defines these debates.

but one qn, for those that keep saying that the old Nikon lenses dont work on current Nikon cameras, which lenses are you referring to? \

You don't know? Gosh, neither do I. There have been so many I can't keep track. That's the point!

as someone already said. the fact that they can keep the same mount is a testament to their engineering ability.

Quite the reverse. The mount is the same, but all of the connections are now different.

Canon greatly expanded their technical capabilities by changing their mount and starting over. Nikon was unwise not to do so as well.

 

[Derrel]

Petraio,
You're clearly in the dark about Nikon lens designs and what constitutes obsolete,etc,etc. Really simple: the "Baby Nikons" is a term I coined to help people remember what works with them: the Baby Nikons will mount and shoot ANY LENS EVER MADE in Nikon F-mount (except for a couple of rare 1960's fisheye lenses that cost more than a small car). Baby Nikons will mount and shoot photos with ANY autofocus Nikon lens ever made. The diaphragm will be fully automatic. The Baby Nikons are ideal for use with bellows, microscopes, slide duplicators, old telephotos, old wideangles, old exotic,rare zooms, and basically ANY ACCESSORY EVER MADE in F-mount. With the exception of the 21mm f/4 of 1960-62, and a couple of the ultra-rare Niikor fisheyes like the 6mm and 8mm,which are extremely rare.

F-mount is a lot like the Leica M-mount...old....very strong, very capable, and easy to find lenses for. The Baby Nikons are very affordable. They work with ANY F-mount accessory, because they use NO mechanical coupling for metering. They work with ANY AF lens--but will not provide automatic focusing with the 1986-2004 lens designs that use "screwdriver" focusing.

So, it's pretty simple: the people who bought $500 bodies like the D40,D40x,D60,D3000,and D5000 (there are FIVE baby Nikons) can use ANY LENS and ANY F-mount accessory made since 1959. To take photos. There are no connections "needed"--all connections are optional. Buyers of the Baby Nikons can barely afford the pro-level primes that use screwdriver focusing...they buy 18-55 and 55-200 and 70-300 VR and are "done",basically. Nikon caters to higher-end,long-term users more so than newcomers. Nikon has always been that way...they have a huge commitment to "serious" users,and to compatibility and continuity.

You really,really do not understand much about the Nikon system PeePee...you really have no idea...maybe we ought to get into the 2-cam and 3-cam nuances of your discontinued Leicaflex R mount cameras and lenses (laughs). Nikon is what sent Leica into the crapper--is that why you despise Nikon so much? Because in the 1950's their lenses were used on Canon and COntax and Nikon bodies, and sent Leica irreversibly toward its death spiral in professional circles?

Next week, we'll see Canon design its new car, and it will be designed so the gas and brake systems alternate their functions between the two pedals, based on four different transmission gears! Ought to be great fun! (Laughs). 1st gear-brake is brake, 2nd gear brake is gas, 3rd gear brake is brake, 4th gear brake is gas....Air conditioner button also runs the emergency flashers; gear shift also opens the trunk latch; seat adjustment button also runs the windshield wipers; door locks also turn the car on and off. Gotta love 4 controls that run 8 different functions! Great engineering! (not!)

 

[sovietdoc]

Despite the backward compatibility in which Nikon has never "screwed its users", the reason to use Canon for me is the lens prices. Even the L glass isn't that expensive compared to some of the Nikon lens. Nikkor lens cost a lot.

Oh and FF 5dmk2 is 21mp. The only one from nikon to beat that is d3x which cost a lot more.

Both companies have pros and cons, it just a matter of what you want to do and which one of the two is offering better solutions for what you want to do and how you want to do it.

 

[JamesMason]

So how does manual work with only one wheel ?