Canon XSI and sharp images.

[bahandi]

hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.

 

[bennielou]

hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.

I've been processing both for many years now, and there is definately a difference. You don't have to love it, but it is the truth.

Consider the noise on the sensor of an XTI, and then again on a 5D2 or a Mark. It's totally different and you can't deny that. And I'm not going into crop factors. I'm talking about the sensors.

Flat out, an XTI with the same lens and and restrictions of a 5d2 or a Mark, is not going to produce the same level of photos.

I've had people shoot with me, not assistants, but just people learning, and I go through all the shots. They are VASTLY different.

 

[Overread]

Unfortunately, it comes down to what your sensor can handle. Not the cam or the lens.

Ultimatly yes the sensor is a key part of the equation (But unless you are using the RED camera system where there are interchangable sensors the camera is pretty much the definition of the sensor being used - so the cam does matter).
However up till that limit there is a lot one can do with firstly good shooting methodolgy and second with good glass. The improvements will be quite dramatic with both and added together even a rebel camera body can achive some very good levels of quality and professional grade images. Sure matched next to a 7D, 5DM2 or a 1DMIV the results won't be "as good" but they will certainly be saleable images if one works within the boundaries of the quality delivered. *

hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.

If we all keep our heads it won't'



*ps for the wedding photographer nutters amung us no that does not mean I would condone someone to start shooting weddings pro grade with a rebel camera body, its high ISO and other features just don't match up to the mid or top range camera bodies on the market, but its not the same as saying that a rebel camera body cannot deliver good results

pps pro grade simply means getting paid for your work

 

[bennielou]

Unfortunately, it comes down to what your sensor can handle. Not the cam or the lens.

Ultimatly yes the sensor is a key part of the equation (But unless you are using the RED camera system where there are interchangable sensors the camera is pretty much the definition of the sensor being used - so the cam does matter).
However up till that limit there is a lot one can do with firstly good shooting methodolgy and second with good glass. The improvements will be quite dramatic with both and added together even a rebel camera body can achive some very good levels of quality and professional grade images. Sure matched next to a 7D, 5DM2 or a 1DMIV the results won't be "as good" but they will certainly be saleable images if one works within the boundaries of the quality delivered. *

hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.

If we all keep our heads it won't'



*ps for the wedding photographer nutters amung us no that does not mean I would condone someone to start shooting weddings pro grade with a rebel camera body, its high ISO and other features just don't match up to the mid or top range camera bodies on the market, but its not the same as saying that a rebel camera body cannot deliver good results

pps pro grade simply means getting paid for your work

The XTI is a consumer camera. This from Canon. The D series are prosumers. That is the 40, 50 cams. The single Ds are the pro cams. IE, the 5 and Marks. There is a reason for that. The sensors are WAY different.
If they weren't, if it was all just as good as the next, then every pro in the world would be shooting with a Rebel. Just to save money, right?

 

[Overread]

Exactly and that is why I say that I would not advise a person to shoot pro with a rebel, but that does not mean one cannot produce salable results with one. The additional features of even the prosumer DSLRs make them far more suitable for professional and consistant grade work.

However I don't let canons marketing team and terminology define what is and is not possible in the real world - a rebel camera body in teh right hands (and I'd also say with the right lens) can produce results that a person can sell without fear of appearing substandard.

Again its not about saying everyone with a rebel can and is a pro nor is it saying every shot is salable, but it is recognising that results from these cameras is not as horrific as some can make out it to be.

 

[bennielou]

Exactly and that is why I say that I would not advise a person to shoot pro with a rebel, but that does not mean one cannot produce salable results with one. The additional features of even the prosumer DSLRs make them far more suitable for professional and consistant grade work.

However I don't let canons marketing team and terminology define what is and is not possible in the real world - a rebel camera body in teh right hands (and I'd also say with the right lens) can produce results that a person can sell without fear of appearing substandard.

Again its not about saying everyone with a rebel can and is a pro nor is it saying every shot is salable, but it is recognising that results from these cameras is not as horrific as some can make out it to be.

Hey, I've seen fantastic results from a cell cam. That was more about the photog than the camera.
Can people take "non horrific" shots with a Rebel? Yes of course. But I wouldn't base my business rep on it.

 

[bennielou]

Exactly and that is why I say that I would not advise a person to shoot pro with a rebel, but that does not mean one cannot produce salable results with one. The additional features of even the prosumer DSLRs make them far more suitable for professional and consistant grade work.

However I don't let canons marketing team and terminology define what is and is not possible in the real world - a rebel camera body in teh right hands (and I'd also say with the right lens) can produce results that a person can sell without fear of appearing substandard.

Again its not about saying everyone with a rebel can and is a pro nor is it saying every shot is salable, but it is recognising that results from these cameras is not as horrific as some can make out it to be.

At the end of the day, your tools, in most cases, will decide how much money you are worth. Even with my tools, I have people show up at a wedding sporting even bigger gear than I have.
But the photog has to go home and process these photos. They will look as good as the sensor limits them. They could do the best processing in the entire word, shoot the best photo ever, but they are still limited by what the camera is capable of. And based off of that, you will recieve that kind of payment in return.

 

[Overread]

Exactly - in theory at least - the better your tools and (ofcourse) the better your skills the better the end product and thus the better your pay.

Only..... sometimes the best photographers and the best artists get paid peanuts compared to some who produce rather average grade work, but have the idea, gumption and skill to market themselves in a manner that lets them charge their prices.

 

[bennielou]

Exactly - in theory at least - the better your tools and (ofcourse) the better your skills the better the end product and thus the better your pay.

Only..... sometimes the best photographers and the best artists get paid peanuts compared to some who produce rather average grade work, but have the idea, gumption and skill to market themselves in a manner that lets them charge their prices.

And that is very true. Off topic, but true. In Dallas, I am in the pit with the best of the best. Besides Southern California, and Australia, we have the toughest market anywhere.
Some are great sales people, some are not. I'm always amazed when I win a deal over a photographer who I think is better.

But getting back to the topic on hand, better tools make your photos look better.


And it's not theory, it is a fact as I know it.
I started with the 20D, then the 30D, and then on to 5s and Marks. I sit here and process all this stuff and there is a huge difference. We do not let our assistants shoot with substandard cameras because it's too hard to match the quality. We loan them our extras. I've never had anyone show up with a Rebel.

Hey, Rebels are great for backyard photos of the kids, and flowers, and all that kind of stuff. I'm not dissing it. But it's simply not up to pro standards or what a client would expect from someone they pay. I mean maybe so if you are a Master Certified Photographer coming in with all kinds of lighting, but then again, Master Certified Photographers are not using Rebels. There is a reason.

 

[bultican]

Jason,
Find some tutorials on the internet for using a dSLR. Your Xsi has all the bells and whistles of most dSLR cameras, so any tutorial will do as it will tell you what these settings do, etc. It looks like you are trying to manually focus on your subjects, but it can look in-focus in the viewfinder, but once it's on the computer screen, not so much. One tip that will help that right away is to either use the autofocus (which will do a good job for the types of photos you posted here), or use manual focus, but zoom in as far as you can on some fine detail of your subject, then focus, then zoom back out.

The bottom line is that if you are passionate about learning and doing, you'll be fine. I bought my first dSLR (a Canon XSi nonetheless), 2 years ago when they first came out, was very passionate about it, and I mastered the camera in about one full year. Although, it may be better described as an addiction instead of a passion.

Good luck

 

[bennielou]

Jason,
Find some tutorials on the internet for using a dSLR. Your Xsi has all the bells and whistles of most dSLR cameras, so any tutorial will do as it will tell you what these settings do, etc. It looks like you are trying to manually focus on your subjects, but it can look in-focus in the viewfinder, but once it's on the computer screen, not so much. One tip that will help that right away is to either use the autofocus (which will do a good job for the types of photos you posted here), or use manual focus, but zoom in as far as you can on some fine detail of your subject, then focus, then zoom back out.

The bottom line is that if you are passionate about learning and doing, you'll be fine. I bought my first dSLR (a Canon XSi nonetheless), 2 years ago when they first came out, was very passionate about it, and I mastered the camera in about one full year. Although, it may be better described as an addiction instead of a passion.

Good luck

My goodness. You are not helping this poster.

You DO want to manual focus. That is the only way most pros shoot. We like to control our shots, not put it on auto.

Not sure where you are going with the focus in, then back out, then focus in thing. It has to do with the lens.

Being passionate, unfortuately, doesn't pay the bills. I wish it did. I'd be making a million bucks.

And people blowing smoke, don't help either. This poster wants to go pro. No worries. But he needs good advice.

 

[Overread]

Manual focus vs Auto focus

this comes down greatly to the subject area, experience, camera body, lighting conditions and I am sure a few other factors that I have overlooked. It is simply not a cut and dry MF or AF only situation.

First of its important to note that for manual focusing pretty much all DSLRs are poorer at this than the older generation film camera bodies - the simple reason for this is that DSLRs are made with auto focus in mind as being the major focusing mode used and they thus lack in viewfinder focusing aids that the film cameras have. Furthermore untill you get into the midrange and pro line bodies the viewfinders are often a lot smaller and dimmer and some do not even give a full 100% view of the lens image (its normally not far off 100%, but its not true 100%).

With that in mind you then have to consider the situation - if you are shooting sports, wildlife, kids running around, birds and mostly anything currently or likley to be mobile then auto focus (used correctly) is the tool most reach for. It's faster and often far more accurate - again using it correctly is the key here to getting the proper results. Often for action work most photographers stick to AIservo for constant AF and will also use only one af point rather than all the af points on the camera. This allows them to track a moving subject and also keep the camera pointed at the part they want in focus rather than have the camera pick and choose (because the camera will make mistakes and tends to focus only on the closest thing to it).

Manual focus however can be the bread and butter mode for many and studio, product, macro photography are all areas where manual focus can/is the main form of focusing used because the subject is reletivly motionless and the speed of AF is not needed (and in something like macro work manaul focus is also more accurate). Lowlight work is also another area where sometimes manual is needed because the AF cannot get enough light to get a suitable lock onto a subject.

The key here is to try and learn how to use both and then make the right call at the right time as to which to choose to use.

 

[TomBlaze]

Interesting responses thus far.

As an XSi owner I am aware of the limitations of the model howver it can produce excellent shots in the right conditions. For sharp images, ISO should never go beyond 200. 400 can work but avoid it at all costs.

I am assuming you are using the Kit lens. The 18-55mm isn't very ideal but you can still pull off good saleable shots.

A few things to keep in mind:

1. The 18-55mm kit lens works best in daylight or bright indoor settings. This will alllow for higher speed shots with low ISO (100 being the target as mush as possible)
2. Make sure image stabilization is switched on (when shooting by hand).
3. Do not use manual focus. AF works better in most circumstances. Pay attention to the red lights in your veiwfinder. Where it blinks is where it's in focus. You can customize what points you want to focus on or leave it at auto and keep half-pressing the shutter button until the area you want in focus gets a flashing red point. Then snap the shot.
4. Flash helps as well but the built-in flash sucks so invest in a decent flash. I would suggest the 430 ex II. Great features and relatively inexpensive.
5. For shooting, use the BRAS method. Breath (take in a breath let it out and hold). Relax. Aim. Squeeze.
6. Try shooting in burst mode and take 3-4-shot bursts. The middle ones usually come out a little sharper. As you improve you will not need to do this as it fills up the card pretty quickly.

I only got into this a year ago myself but I have been obsessed ever since. I have a bathroom full of photography magazines. Hope my input helps!

 

[ghpham]

Manual Focus on a DSLR is not easy as it seems, at least to me anyway. I would think you need to buy a focusing screen and install on the camera. I am not comfortable tinkering with the camera to install the new focusing screen

 

[JasonLambert]

I feel as if I just got off a roller coaster... Off topic... On topic... Use AF.... Don't use AF.... XSI does a good job... XSI sucks... lol Weeeeeee!!!!!

Just kidding ya'll, Thanks for everything. I will take it all in and form my own theory. Then one day I will be able to place my own hills and valleys in some noobs thread! By the way... I wanted to share this pic... Wasn't planing on shooting just getting an evening walk with the wife and saw this.... RAN back to the car and got the camera!