Catch lights

Aritay · Dec 15, 2009

Post some examples in this thread. You've made a very good point about your photos, and why the multiple catchlights are there - - so I'd bet you'd now get some very good feedback. But it's hard to so so without something to look at.

alannahrose · Dec 15, 2009

These were all shot with the same setup. Well, same lights, different position.

Derrel · Dec 15, 2009

I like round catchlights, and I also like square or rectangular catchlights. My feeling is that square or rectangular catchlights mimic window light, like the old "north light studio" look of the late 19th century.

I've seen your worklight photos, which have three small catchlights on top and one on the bottom; it's a novel look. I have not seen that exact setup before, so it is unconventional. You could make it look more conventional if you shot the worklights through a thin, transparent fabric stretched tightly on a frame made of PVC pipe, or an old window screen frame, or any type of frame. You could also bounce the worklights off of a piece of Foam-Core board, or a light-colored wall. That would give large, even catchlights,and a nice light quality.

I think what WOULD LOOK COOL is to make a tight cluster of worklights in a circle; five or six lights, equally spaced. Now that would look cool! If you mean the clamp-on worklights with 8 inch tin reflectors and squeeze clamps...you know, a DIY round cluster of them might look pretty cool if you could space them all equally into holes cut out in something like an aluminum pizza pan, so you'd have a "light unit" you could use as a powerful main light. If you had some of the smaller, 5-inch diameter reflectors, it's be easier to space the lights and aim them all straight forward.

The cool thing you are getting with the worklights is experience with direct, relatively undiffused light, which has direction, and which throws shadows which create shape. That alone is a nice lesson in lighting and light positioning.

Pugs · Dec 15, 2009

Derrel said:
I like round catchlights, and I also like square or rectangular catchlights. My feeling is that square or rectangular catchlights mimic window light, like the old "north light studio" look of the late 19th century.

I've seen your worklight photos, which have three small catchlights on top and one on the bottom; it's a novel look. I have not seen that exact setup before, so it is unconventional. You could make it look more conventional if you shot the worklights through a thin, transparent fabric stretched tightly on a frame made of PVC pipe, or an old window screen frame, or any type of frame. You could also bounce the worklights off of a piece of Foam-Core board, or a light-colored wall. That would give large, even catchlights,and a nice light quality.

I think what WOULD LOOK COOL is to make a tight cluster of worklights in a circle; five or six lights, equally spaced. Now that would look cool! If you mean the clamp-on worklights with 8 inch tin reflectors and squeeze clamps...you know, a DIY round cluster of them might look pretty cool if you could space them all equally into holes cut out in something like an aluminum pizza pan, so you'd have a "light unit" you could use as a powerful main light. If you had some of the smaller, 5-inch diameter reflectors, it's be easier to space the lights and aim them all straight forward.

The cool thing you are getting with the worklights is experience with direct, relatively undiffused light, which has direction, and which throws shadows which create shape. That alone is a nice lesson in lighting and light positioning.

This is an excellent post! Ignore my rantings and go with this.

Also, your compositions are strong and are well exposed. I actually rather like the pics!

camz · Dec 15, 2009

alannah thanks for posting the stills. You've given me something new to try :thumbup:

Bitter Jeweler · Dec 15, 2009

alannahrose said:
I don't consider it a mistake. I think that being ugly can be distracting, but I'm not going to insist on only photographing beautiful people.

I think ugly is more interesting.

And the rule of thirds isn't followed very often.

LMAO
What?
Successfully?

I'm just saying that I wish people would look past the catch lights and critique the rest of the picture. After hearing the lights are distracting in the same thread a few times, I get the point.

Judging by the response of this thread, you really don't get the point.
You can simply edit the extras out.

And I don't want to be conventional. I don't want to do everything the way people think it should be done. If everyone did that we would be no where in terms of art.

I love this defense. But you are not having more catch lights to be different and stretch the boundries. You are doing it because you have no choice. BIG difference. I think Pugs pointed more to using catchlights "artistically" and breaking a rule with the purpose of doing so.

And the reason I was being "defensive" was because someone asked if I like them and I do. I don't consider that defensive.

Starting a whole thread about it, and your replies here came off as defensive to me. In particular, you are defending why they are there, rather than you liking them because you have a purpose behind it.

Also, please don't consider this post to be defensive, because it's not meant to be. I'm simply replying to everything Pugs said.

You are allowed to defend yourself. it creates lively discussion, and helps a bunch of people learn. :thumbup:

Thank you all for your suggestions. I really just asked because I wanted to know if it was a rule or a preference.

I have seen this come up in competition many times. It's repeatedly pointed out, both good and bad catch lights. What happens when you lose grade points because of them, and your teacher repeatedly comments on them? Are you still going to defend that they are OK, because you are being "different". One thing you should learn in art school, is that being different is one thing, being different successfully is another.

:thumbup:

Edit: See, Derrels post exemplifies this. He is describing experimenting with catch lights with a purpose behind it.

alannahrose · Dec 16, 2009

alannah thanks for posting the stills. You've given me something new to try

Huh?

And there is purpose. I want to do it, and just because you keep telling me that it is wrong and that it is a mistake, I think I'm going to keep trying to make the catch lights like this. Oh and by the way,

What happens when you lose grade points because of them, and your teacher repeatedly comments on them? Are you still going to defend that they are OK, because you are being "different". One thing you should learn in art school, is that being different is one thing, being different successfully is another.

The instructors said that they were very interesting and to keep them. And they said the most important thing to do with them (instructors or anyone really) is if they don't like my pictures then MAKE them love them by talking them up and insisting that it looks better the way I do it.

im_jacobf · Dec 16, 2009

You know what, I don't care if this gets me hated, or banned, but I have to say it. You sound like an arrogant child who thinks that they are the best artist, and that they need to break rules and be creative to "change the world" because you are going to college. Some things are meant to be followed, and your art teachers should teach you to follow these standards, and to learn basic composition before you go around breaking it. And you make a post talking about catchlights, then you say that you like them. If you like them, then ignore the comments about them. People are OBVIOUSLY going to bring it up, it's part of your photo, it deserves to be critiqued. If you are tired of being critiqued on catch lights, stop asking for input on photos with them. If you like them, good. If your teachers like them, okay. But don't come on here acting like you know everything about photography because you are a freshman in a university for it. -.-

</rant>

JenLavazza · Dec 16, 2009

Amen im jacobf!!

Inst!nct · Dec 16, 2009

i'm not going to get in this whole topic but i wanted to say thanks to the people that helped me understand more about catchlights

Bitter Jeweler · Dec 16, 2009

alannahrose said:
The instructors said that they were very interesting and to keep them. And they said the most important thing to do with them (instructors or anyone really) is if they don't like my pictures then MAKE them love them by talking them up and insisting that it looks better the way I do it.

Ok.

ROFLMFAO.
:lmao:

inTempus · Dec 16, 2009

alannahrose said:
I use them because I need that much light and I don't have the money to buy anything better yet. It's just upsetting because when I ask to have a picture critiqued, that is what most people say even though I explain the situation.

That right there should tell you everything you need to know. If you get lots of negative feedback on the catch lights in your subjects eyes, it's safe to assume people don't care for them.

I agree with Pugs, typically a single catch light in the eyes is ideal. I know I prefer this look. Heck, I'll go a step further and say I prefer a round catch light in the eyes. Going even further, I prefer the catch light of a ring flash more than any of the others... a beauty dish comes a close second.

I've seen pictures with 3 or more catch lights in the eyes and they were all over the eye itself and had no symmetry. I found it to be distracting and it kind of ruined the picture for me.

If you like lots of catch lights, then shoot what makes you happy. If you're trying to please the masses with your photography, you'll have to modify your technique. It's all up to you.

alannahrose · Dec 16, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by alannahrose
I use them because I need that much light and I don't have the money to buy anything better yet. It's just upsetting because when I ask to have a picture critiqued, that is what most people say even though I explain the situation.

That right there should tell you everything you need to know. If you get lots of negative feedback on the catch lights in your subjects eyes, it's safe to assume people don't care for them.

And you make a post talking about catchlights, then you say that you like them. If you like them, then ignore the comments about them.

I asked if it was a rule or preference. People saying they don't like them doesn't tell me either way, it just means they don't like it. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this.

don't come on here acting like you know everything about photography because you are a freshman in a university for it. -.-

I didn't say that I know everything about photography. I know I have tons to learn. That's why I asked for help, but obviously people don't take into consideration that I have only been taking photos for 18 weeks.

You sound like an arrogant child who thinks that they are the best artist, and that they need to break rules and be creative to "change the world" because you are going to college.

I didn't realize that trying to change the world was arrogant and childish. I guess we can all just say [I don't really care for your opinion] to people Benjamin Franklin, Picasso and Einstein. And I don't remember ever saying that I wanted to change the world, I just said "I don't want to be conventional. I don't want to do everything the way people think it should be done. If everyone did that we would be no where in terms of art." Because that's true.

Quote: Originally Posted by alannahrose
The instructors said that they were very interesting and to keep them. And they said the most important thing to do with them (instructors or anyone really) is if they don't like my pictures then MAKE them love them by talking them up and insisting that it looks better the way I do it.
Ok.

ROFLMFAO.

And how the Hell is this funny?

So, I guess I'm pretty much saying [I don't really care for your opinion]. :biggrin: