CFL Studio Setup or Not?

[kellyhenselle]

Hi, all!

Always thank you for the great information and discussion.

I am a photography student and looking to purchase a lighting setup for my 1-car garage studio.

I have been shopping online and found that 11main.com offers quite a few CFL studio setups along with 20% discount on the first order. It kind of seems to me that the prices are little too cheap to be true, though... 3 CFL light + 3 muslin background complete setup for about $100, plus free shipping and 20% discount...? Is this so cheap because lighting is CFL, not halogen? Or is this a online scam that I should stay away from?

Has anyone tried purchasing from one of the CFL lighting equipment vendors from 11main? Please share your experiences and thoughts. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

 

[KmH]

Constant lights (CFLs) are ambient light.
Also CFLs don't put out much light power.
It's cheap because the muslin back drops are small and thin and the lights don't provide much light power.
CFLs are fluorescent lights. If you have window light or incandescent lights in the garage you could have mixed light color temperature issues.

Strobed light (flash) can be controlled separately from ambient light - with a single shutter release.
When using a strobe (flash) lens aperture and the flash unit power setting control the exposure of the flash of light.
Shutter speed and ISO control the exposure of any ambient light in the scene.

Being able to control ambient light exposure separately from the flash exposure with a single shutter release opens up many artistic possibilities not available when only using ambient light.

It is usually a lot easier to gel a strobe than it is to gel a constant light just because a strobe doesn't get as hot as a constant light.

Decent studio strobe lights are not very costly.
Flashpoint Softbox Duo-Light 320M 2 MonoLight Kit

 

[D-B-J]

You get what you pay for. CFL's get hot, don't put out a lot of light, and you can't control their power. I'd recommend picking up some Yongnuo flashes and triggers off amazon or ebay. I was pretty impressed at the build quality and power/settings available on the Yongnuo I picked up.

What I'm suggesting is a "strobist" setup. Check out this blog below for a solid write-up on the basics.

Strobist Lighting 101

Jake

 

[Don Kondra]

Geez Keith and Jake, CFL's Do Not get hot...

Having said that, flash or strobe are a better choice

Cheers, Don

 

[tirediron]

...It kind of seems to me that the prices are little too cheap to be true...

If it seems too good to be true...

Save your money, look into the links Keith (KmH) posted. I can guarentee that an <$100 CFL set-up will leave you very disapointed.

 

[kellyhenselle]

Thank you all for your input! And I apologize for my ignorance.

So, the CFLs are not a good choice mainly because it does not provide much power...
Is the CFLs power that much low not enough to be used even if I keep the aperture wide open and bump up the ISO? I heard my camera can go 6400 ISO with manageable noise.

Also, I am seeing some kits with larger bulbs like 85W or even 4 or 5 multiple socket units. Would those still not be enough for the portrait purpose?

CFL Kit

Also, what I am curious about is... the below strobe kit.

Flash Strobe Kit

The wattage is way lower than the CFL kit (3600 vs. 540). So... multiple socket CFLs are better/stronger than flash strobes??? It seems like they offer bank switches to control the power or dimness.

Strobist setup was to confusing for me.... And it seems like each speedlite unit costs more than the full size regular flash head... What is a real advantage of the strobist setup except for the portability?

Sorry for barrage of questions. I kind of have a fixed spending limit and I just happened to be stuck on the fact that I get the 20% off for the complete setup, so I can experience how the complete studio setup works before trying to save money and get a gradual setup on good equipments.

Thank you all again for your expertise.

 

[KmH]

CFLs don't get as hot as tungsten/incandescent lights, but they do get hot, and the more light they put out (more powerful they are), the hotter they get.

You get 8, 45 watt CFLs and 1 105 watt CFL 105 + 45 x 8 = 1305.
The 3600 is a equivalent to tungsten type lights
The flash kit is again number and as a total of all the lights. The 3600 is used to make you think you are getting more powerful lights than they actually are.

Constant lights deliver their power over a much longer time than a flash unit does.
Flash unit power specifications are usually stated as watt seconds instead of watts.
A watt is 1 joule of power delivered over a period of 1 second.
Flash units deliver all their light power in 1/500 of a second or less, or 500 x (or more) shorter than constant lights deliver their power.

In fact the duration of flash is so short it can usually substitute for shutter speed's capability of stopping motion.

The difference in the length of time the light is delivered is why constant lights deliver less power than flash units.

There is a lot of science (mostly physics) involved in understanding many of the technical aspects of doing photography.

 

[kellyhenselle]

Thank you Keith for your valuable information.

A couple more questions:

1. So, generally speaking, the more power is better and the orders are flash > incadescent > CFL, right?
2. If they all use wattage as a measurement but translate differently, then there is no definite means to compare the power among them, right?
3. Why are people so concerned if the light is hot or not? Does it really matter as long as it gets the job done? I posted a similar question on a different forum and tt's kind of weird that the immediate reactions from people were whether it's hot or not than pros and cons.
4. I read that continuous lighting lets you read the highlights and shadows while flash lighting does not completely lets you. I kind of like that idea as I do not have any knowledge in lightings and CFLs are cheaper than flash strobes. Would you still recommend flash kit for me?

Thank you all again for your input. Your information helps me a lot.

 

[astroNikon]

IF the physical light bulbs get hot and a diffuser is used .. well, the diffuser could catch on fire. Which, generally speaking, is not a good thing
Also, as heat builds up people get uncomfertable with the heat especially if the lights are close.

You also have the "hotness" of the color of the light, which affects whitebalance thus you have to be careful about mixing lights with natural lights, etc. ==>Understanding White Balance

the rule of thumb is if you are taking pictures of people then use a flash/strobe.
taking pictures of things then other lighting is okay because you can slow the shutter to compensate for low light output lights. (also see the Whitebalance link above)

Strobes can have modeling lights, which let you see the shadows that you want to create. Flashes don't really have modeling lights. But once you understand the "formula" you can generally get it quickly.

 

[tirediron]

Thank you Keith for your valuable information.

A couple more questions:

1. So, generally speaking, the more power is better and the orders are flash > incadescent > CFL, right? More like "Strobed" > "Continuous>
2. If they all use wattage as a measurement but translate differently, then there is no definite means to compare the power among them, right? Correct, at least not accurately.
3. Why are people so concerned if the light is hot or not? Does it really matter as long as it gets the job done? I posted a similar question on a different forum and tt's kind of weird that the immediate reactions from people were whether it's hot or not than pros and cons. Heat is a con. Heat costs money, heat causes damage, and discomfort.
4. I read that continuous lighting lets you read the highlights and shadows while flash lighting does not completely lets you. I kind of like that idea as I do not have any knowledge in lightings and CFLs are cheaper than flash strobes. Would you still recommend flash kit for me? Abosolutely yes. Given the prices for brands such as Nissin and Yongnuo, not buying strobes, is, IMO, just plain silly (Unless you have a specific requirement). While it may not seem like it initially, strobed light is actually very easy to work with, and in the long run, much, much easier than continuous light.

Thank you all again for your input. Your information helps me a lot.

My thoughts... YMMV

 

[Designer]

Thank you Keith for your valuable information.

A couple more questions:

1. So, generally speaking, the more power is better and the orders are flash > incadescent > CFL, right?
2. If they all use wattage as a measurement but translate differently, then there is no definite means to compare the power among them, right?
3. Why are people so concerned if the light is hot or not? Does it really matter as long as it gets the job done? I posted a similar question on a different forum and tt's kind of weird that the immediate reactions from people were whether it's hot or not than pros and cons.
4. I read that continuous lighting lets you read the highlights and shadows while flash lighting does not completely lets you. I kind of like that idea as I do not have any knowledge in lightings and CFLs are cheaper than flash strobes. Would you still recommend flash kit for me?

Thank you all again for your input. Your information helps me a lot.

1. Not necessarily, but we usually don't grade them that way. It has more to do with other things, such as light color, consistency of color, and controllability, all of which are better handled by electronic strobe (flash, speedlight, etc.).

2. They don't all use wattage as a measurement. That measurement does not translate between the types of lighting very well. You can probably look up some power usage of a flash, and try to equate that with the wattage rating of incandescent lights, but it is simply not really an issue if one is talking about the strobe. The modeling light that is housed within the strobe light head is in watts, but it is not how you would specify the strobe. Usually strobes are rated in watt-seconds.

Meanwhile, CFL bulbs are sometimes rated in "equivalent" wattage, which is very confusing because they don't actually consume that much power while operating, but the manufacturers have tried to rate the bulbs in some rating system that consumers were already familiar with.

3. Watts and power make heat. Whether the heat that is produced is too much depends on who all is affected. Models sometimes sit under hot lights to the point of perspiring, and it is uncomfortable for everyone in a small enclosed space if there is too much heat in the room. The old way was to burn some very hot lights while shooting stills or movies. Yes, it can be done, but at what cost? Speaking of cost, burning hot lights uses lots more energy, which costs more money.

4. Continusous lighting might be considered somewhat easier for beginners because they can see the light and shadow immediately when moving the lights around. Studio strobes contain a built-in modeling light that shows the photographer the light and shadow before the flash is fired. Since speedlights do not normally contain a modeling light, that is why some writers have said "continuous lighting is easier".

But then continuous lighting is either low-powered or very hot, your choice.

 

[Derrel]

CFL lighting (Crummy Freakin' Lame ) is a way that a number of eBay vendors have come up with to create attractive-looking, low-priced lighting kits. The costs are low for these vendors, so they can pile the kits full of junky accessories, which boosts the "piece count"; 12-piece complete lighting kit! 15-piece studio in a box! And so on...

Continuous lights of this type are going to be "okay" for taking simple product type shots for blogs and websites...that's the upside of them. Low-budget, ultra simple, for-the-record, documentary shots of non-moving subjects...that's the niche for CFL kits.

Studio flash is, I think, better for still photography of people and for creative, exciting lighting. It's got a lot more modifiers avalable. I recommend a few modifiers like honeycomb grid sets in 35 and 20 degree, white fabric or mylar diffusers, barn door sets, and both small and medium-sized parabolic reflectors (7-inch and 11.5 inch), with a total power of 400 to 600 Watt-seconds that can be divided up between four light units (meaning, yes, four 150 Watt-second Adorama Flashpoint 320M monolights is about right).

The LACK of modifiers, light shaping tools, like parabolic reflectors, barn doors, and honeycomb grids, is what really kills the e-Bay and on-line CFL kits for "real lighting". Having lights that can use ONLY umbrellas and softboxes is what makes these CFL kits so limiting for creative lighting tasks.

 

[KmH]

Speaking of light modifiers . . . .
The small umbrellas and or soft boxes that come with those kits are only big enough for one subject portrait head shots, or head and shoulder shots.
If you want to shoot multiple subjects, 1/2 body, 3/4 body or full body you will need larger light modifiers.
As light modifier size increases you need more light power because some light power is absorbed by the light modifier.

You are right that watts, watt seconds, and the GN number used for stating hot shoe flash unit power are not directly comparable.
From experience, a 500 watt tungsten/incandescent constant light is about equivalent to a 150 watt second strobe light set to full power.

Unfortunately hot shoe flash unit GN numbers are all over the map and hot shoe flash makers manipulate the numbers for marketing purposes and hot shoe flash GN numbers cannot even be compared to each other with any accuracy.

 

[kellyhenselle]

... the rule of thumb is if you are taking pictures of people then use a flash/strobe.
taking pictures of things then other lighting is okay because you can slow the shutter to compensate for low light output lights. (also see the Whitebalance link above)

Strobes can have modeling lights, which let you see the shadows that you want to create. Flashes don't really have modeling lights. But once you understand the "formula" you can generally get it quickly.

Great tips... astroNikon. My main interest in people portraits, and more in studio than outdoors. I have seen many many sharp and beautiful portraits that touches peoples hearts. I wish I could reach that level one day. I will keep in mind that flash/strobe will have to be the main gear for people photography.

 

[kellyhenselle]

... Continusous lighting might be considered somewhat easier for beginners because they can see the light and shadow immediately when moving the lights around. Studio strobes contain a built-in modeling light that shows the photographer the light and shadow before the flash is fired. Since speedlights do not normally contain a modeling light, that is why some writers have said "continuous lighting is easier".

But then continuous lighting is either low-powered or very hot, your choice.

Thank you Designer for kindly and neutral explanation. It still is hard for me to see the light and shadow for me. So, yes, one of the reasons I am digging into CFL kits on the market is because I hope I could learn how to read the lights. (and again... it fits my budget!)

From my rather limited experiences with flash strobes, the modeling lights were very dim and I could not even see where is the light and shadow. I heard from a friend that the strobe modeling bulb rating is between 125W-250W. My thinking was 2400W CFL kit will let me show much more clearly where light and shadow fall.

I might be wrong...