Christmas set up with lights and help with AF

[Designer]

We did the nom. for POTM, December, 2017

 

[Designer]

The LED lights wouldn't show up and googled that the shutter needs to be at 60. The other settings ISO200, f2.8 and the speed light at 1/8 power.

To be filed under "mostly useless information" is this little tidbit: LED lights actually are pulsing at about 60Hz. Our perception is that they seem to be a steady glow, but when you hit the shutter opening just right, they will appear to be off. This is why you need a longer shutter speed to see the LED lights reliably in the photo.

As for your other settings, to increase the DOF, use a smaller aperture. Yes, that means you will need MORE light, so turn up the power on the speedlight. Since you can figure the DOF with the DOF calculator, do the figuring before the gang shows up, so you will be ready. Draw some imaginary lines (or use the beads, or whatever) in which to pose the children. inform mother that they should be positioned within your imaginary posing box, and the DOF should be deep enough to get everything in focus (yes, including your props). If the DOF is deep enough to get the sled and the beads in focus, then any child within that area should be in focus as well.

Good luck!

 

[smoke665]

Draw some imaginary lines (or use the beads, or whatever) in which to pose the children

I use duct tape X's stands up to the most persistent child. LOL Clone out what shows post

 

[CherylL]

I would immediately hang the background so it is "wide", not "tall". The issue with a narrow background is that it can be difficult to get the background to fill the width of a horizontal camera shot. Making the lighted background W_I_D_E_R will immediately give you a much easier set to work with, and will allow you to use different lens focal lengths with much more ease and fluidity.

The lens focal length determines the angle of view behind the subject; a 24mm lens could fill the frame with the dog and sled, but the entire back wall would show! A 50mm to 100mm lens.

ADDING more light by upping the flash power is the wrong approach, I think.

Shutter speed and ISO are the easiest ways to regulate how bright the LED lights will be shown; the FLASH is regulated by the ISO used, and the f/stop, but the shutter speed has zero effect on the flash exposure. You can make the background lights as dim or as bright as you want, by changing the shutter's "open time duration"; adding more flash can actually be counterproductive.

If you ADD flash lighting on the subject, it will tend to make the background LED's register as dimmer...

Shutter speeds of from 1/40 to 1/8 second could be useful, for getting the LED lights to register at different brightness levels, when using say one speedlight, ISO 200, and f/8-ish. Thse LED's do NOT look all that bright to me, based on your f/2.8 exposure setting.

Lens aperture size, in both f/stop (focal ratio number) AND the actual, physical width of the hole in the lens (which determines background blur, and also, depth of field. Ergo...with a small lens, like a 50mm lens at f/2.8 you get smallish bokeh balls; with a 200mm lens at f/2.8 (same focal ratio), the p_h_y_s_i_c_a_l_l_y w_i_d_e_r hole in the lens will create LARGER bokeh balls.

So...if you want larger out of focus bokeh balls on the background LED's, you will want to use a larger f/stop with a physically longer lens.

Moving the tripod as far back as you can, and using the absolute longest focal length lens you have (135mm,180mm,200mm,300mm) will make the background blur circles (the bokeh balls) BIGGER. This is physics...depth of field is discussed a lot, but not so the topic of background blur.

The issue with longer focal lengths is that you can get the dog to be say 1/3 the width of the entire frame, but the longer the focal length used, the narrower the angle of view _behind_ the subject. So...it's always a balancing act....camera-to-subject distance, and focal length used, and the amount of physical background width shown in the picture. Wide-angles will show lots of backdrop width; extreme telephotos will show a narrow slice of the backdrop.
**********

Looking at the basic exposure info you gave: ISO 200, f2.8 and the speedlight at 1/8 power. Whatever the shutter speed you used, it looks GOOD. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the speedlight at 1/8 power for f/2.8 and ISO 200 and your shutter speed: you have a VERY nice balance of the exposure triangle!!!

But, you could get bigger bokeh balls with a longer lens, at f/2.8 or even f/4 or f/5.6, from much,much farther back than with the 50mm lens.

Wow, lots of info I need to digest. Agree the BG should be wide and not tall. It is the width of the projector screen and I'll need to improvise. I had planned on getting adult photos sitting on a stool or bench too.

I'll work practice the next few days with the 85 and various settings. Thank you for all of the info, much appreciated!

 

[CherylL]

We did the nom. for POTM, December, 2017

Thank you! I am humbled

 

[CherylL]

Draw some imaginary lines (or use the beads, or whatever) in which to pose the children

I use duct tape X's stands up to the most persistent child. LOL Clone out what shows post

For the kids I am using a red furry stool, small chairs and a rocking horse. The end of the pool table serves me as a guide, but will think about something on the floor if the kids are sitting or standing ground level.

Thanks for the help!

 

[CherylL]

The LED lights wouldn't show up and googled that the shutter needs to be at 60. The other settings ISO200, f2.8 and the speed light at 1/8 power.

To be filed under "mostly useless information" is this little tidbit: LED lights actually are pulsing at about 60Hz. Our perception is that they seem to be a steady glow, but when you hit the shutter opening just right, they will appear to be off. This is why you need a longer shutter speed to see the LED lights reliably in the photo.

As for your other settings, to increase the DOF, use a smaller aperture. Yes, that means you will need MORE light, so turn up the power on the speedlight. Since you can figure the DOF with the DOF calculator, do the figuring before the gang shows up, so you will be ready. Draw some imaginary lines (or use the beads, or whatever) in which to pose the children. inform mother that they should be positioned within your imaginary posing box, and the DOF should be deep enough to get everything in focus (yes, including your props). If the DOF is deep enough to get the sled and the beads in focus, then any child within that area should be in focus as well.

Good luck!

I did notice that the lights would all appear at random. If I had a constant light instead of flash I could then up my shutter speed and spray a rapid fire of photos. Good idea on using beads as the box of focus. Thank you!

 

[Designer]

If I had a constant light instead of flash I could then up my shutter speed and spray a rapid fire of photos.

I don't understand. From what I understand about constant lighting is that it is usually not enough light to allow for a fast shutter speed. Maybe if you used constant tree lights instead of LED lights that might be better. (?)

 

[Braineack]

Draw some imaginary lines (or use the beads, or whatever) in which to pose the children

I use duct tape X's stands up to the most persistent child. LOL Clone out what shows post

For the kids I am using a red furry stool, small chairs and a rocking horse. The end of the pool table serves me as a guide, but will think about something on the floor if the kids are sitting or standing ground level.

Thanks for the help!

I really think you should reconsider using duct tape for the kids

 

[Braineack]

If you're using a tripod, you can always take one clean exposure with no subjects at all so you have a perfect background you're happy with.

if any of the bokeh balls don't turn up, it will be easy to superimpose your "good" background. It's nice to have a "just in case" frame.

 

[smoke665]

I really think you should reconsider using duct tape for the kids

It works even better if you roll up a loop, sticky side out, then have them stand on it.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I've worked with kids and I'd suggest you get in plenty of practice and have the lighting set up figured out so you can work quickly with the kids. Use a teddy bear or whatever as a stand in! but get this all figured out because that little one is not going to be able to wait around long while you adjust equipment. The older ones should be able to do this but then again, if they will or not is another thing! lol Give some incentive, such as when this is done then ___ (you can take a break, have some juice or a cookie, go play with your phone and text your friends... maybe give them an idea of the timeframe, like you can go do ___ in say, 10 minutes, or whatever).

The youngest one probably won't know what an X is but might know a circle or square (to direct the child to sit on the ___). I've use carpet squares because young children may do better with something more 'concrete', something they can see and touch - 'over there' could be meaningless, they probably won't know where you're pointing (over where?? lol). I was trying to think what to use that wouldn't show, maybe a washcloth folded?? Also you could use the older kids to help and have them show the littler one what to do; give everybody whatever is being used to mark the spot. (We all had our carpet square, adults too, so we could show what to do along with giving verbal directions.)

As far as the photo, the idea for the background is lovely and this setting will make for some wonderful pictures. I think the depth of field is too shallow. I feel like I want to clean my glasses trying to see the sled clearly. If it's that close to the kids it should be in focus too. Having the background softly out of focus can work but objects close to the subjects being out of focus makes too much of the picture out of focus. Especially with objects with lettering on them - and they're part of the scene! It doesn't to me make sense to set up a a lovely scene and them have it mostly out of focus; I'd leave the OOF to the background. Practice various apertures and see how it looks.

 

[Designer]

I really think you should reconsider using duct tape for the kids

Indeed! Red Green's words to live by: If it's not supposed to move, use duct tape.

 

[CherylL]

I've worked with kids and I'd suggest you get in plenty of practice and have the lighting set up figured out so you can work quickly with the kids. Use a teddy bear or whatever as a stand in! but get this all figured out because that little one is not going to be able to wait around long while you adjust equipment. The older ones should be able to do this but then again, if they will or not is another thing! lol Give some incentive, such as when this is done then ___ (you can take a break, have some juice or a cookie, go play with your phone and text your friends... maybe give them an idea of the timeframe, like you can go do ___ in say, 10 minutes, or whatever).

The youngest one probably won't know what an X is but might know a circle or square (to direct the child to sit on the ___). I've use carpet squares because young children may do better with something more 'concrete', something they can see and touch - 'over there' could be meaningless, they probably won't know where you're pointing (over where?? lol). I was trying to think what to use that wouldn't show, maybe a washcloth folded?? Also you could use the older kids to help and have them show the littler one what to do; give everybody whatever is being used to mark the spot. (We all had our carpet square, adults too, so we could show what to do along with giving verbal directions.)

As far as the photo, the idea for the background is lovely and this setting will make for some wonderful pictures. I think the depth of field is too shallow. I feel like I want to clean my glasses trying to see the sled clearly. If it's that close to the kids it should be in focus too. Having the background softly out of focus can work but objects close to the subjects being out of focus makes too much of the picture out of focus. Especially with objects with lettering on them - and they're part of the scene! It doesn't to me make sense to set up a a lovely scene and them have it mostly out of focus; I'd leave the OOF to the background. Practice various apertures and see how it looks.

Good point on the sled not in focus. There was something about the photo that didn't quite look right and the sled out of focus is a distraction. I'll definitely have this set up before the grands come over. The window of their patience is narrow. The older two like to be behind the camera so they play with my sports camera that can sustain falls or I let them push the shutter and set the scene. Other times I have asked them where they wanted to sit or pose and after a few photos of their choice then I say it is my turn to pick. This set there really aren't any choices so maybe I will let them each take a turn photographing Mom or a toy first.

My longest lens is an 85 and there is plenty of room for me to back up. I picked up 2 50gal paint stirs to duct tape to the BG to expand and more lights. But, space is limited for width and I need a bigger sheet. It may be easier to PS the sides. I did a few practice shots and f3.2 works for the backdrop and gives me 0.78ft of focus. I'll work on camera placement and people placement using stuffed animals to see what is in focus and what is not.

Thanks for all of the tips! Very much appreciated.

 

[smoke665]

. I did a few practice shots and f3.2 works for the backdrop and gives me 0.78ft of focus.

You do realize that .78 ft is is just over 9 inches and equates to rougly 4 inches in front of and behind your focal plane. So assuming you lock on the eyes, the ears will be out of focus. If that is the intent then you're good to go.