Color Management

Phil2k · Jun 10, 2012

I am having difficulty reproducing the same saturation levels in JPEG after post-editing and saving. Basically, the final version of my picture saved into JPEG loses a lot of the saturation. Interestingly if I open the saved JPEG into my HDR software (the same software I used to edit the picture) the picture looks how I intended it to, but when I open it in any other photo viewer the same JPEG loses much of its color.

I believe this is a color management issue and that some of my devices are using different color spaces, but I have no idea how to remedy this problem as I have never adjusted my color settings before. When I check the color space being used by my HDR software I see that it is the exact same one that my monitor uses, so what gives?

Thanks in advance.

KmH · Jun 10, 2012

Hopefully you understand JPEG has as limited a bit-depth as it gets, just 8-bits per color channel. That's only 256 gradations of tone per channel.

What application do you use to edit, what color space do you edit in, and what file type do you edit in.

Raw, can be 8-bit or 16-bit. Lightroom's default edit color space in it's Develope module is ProPhoto RGB.

in fact, image editing experts recommend editing in the ProPhoto RGB colorspace, and then setting the image color profile baised on the intended output - sRGB for web and web devices, and for print, the colorspace the printer or print lab wants.

Phil2k · Jun 10, 2012

Thanks Keith.

I edit using Oloneo's HDR PhotoEngine and I edit RAW files taken with my Canon T2i.

Ysarex · Jun 10, 2012

Is your monitor calibrated? Oloneo looks for a profile for your display and it uses that profile once it finds it to make adjustments to how it displays your photos inside the work environment. Without more info, I'm going to start by suspecting that Oloneo is reading a generic ICC profile for your display and that's the root of your problem. More info and we can narrow it down. Is your monitor calibrated and profiled? With what and is Oloneo using that profile?

Joe

Phil2k · Jun 10, 2012

Oloneo uses the same color space as my monitor - VX2450_SERIES.ICM

I have never calibrated my monitor. I see in the color management section of the control panel there is an option to do this, I guess I should do this?

I have read at a few websites that calibration devices are a con.

Ysarex · Jun 10, 2012

Phil2k said:
Oloneo uses the same color space as my monitor - VX2450_SERIES.ICM

I have never calibrated my monitor. I see in the color management section of the control panel there is an option to do this, I guess I should do this?

I have read at a few websites that calibration devices are a con.

You're reading the wrong websites. In addition to calibrating your monitor you need to profile it. This is likely at the root of your problem. That VX2450 profile (ICC file) is a canned generic that probably isn't very faithful to your actual conditions. Go back to Oloneo and for now set it to use sRGB in place of the monitor profile. This may help temporarily, but ultimately you have to bite this bullet. Oloneo, as does Photoshop, as does LR as does etc.. tries to show you a faithful rendition of your photo. To do that they try and take the real measured characteristics of your monitor into account. You're not giving them those real measured characteristics -- you don't have them -- so they're using a generic that is not accurate.

Joe

Phil2k · Jun 10, 2012

Thanks Joe, I have just calibrated my monitor and created a color space profile, I have associated both my VX2450 monitors and Oloneo with that profile. What next? What devices/programs/applications within Windows do I need to associate with that profile?

Ysarex · Jun 10, 2012

That's a start, but if you calibrated your monitor visually you still haven't profiled it. The bad news is: $$$$ -- you need hardware to create a profile. Oloneo wants that profile. Here's the best hardware: http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1454

There are less expensive options out there and other folks here should chime in and recommend them.

Joe

Solarflare · Jun 11, 2012

KmH said:
[...] Raw, can be 8-bit or 16-bit. [...]

Um.

I specifically know that my own camera, the D5100, uses 14 bit RAW, and other cameras use 12 bit RAW.

Phil2k · Jun 11, 2012

Ysarex said:
That's a start, but if you calibrated your monitor visually you still haven't profiled it. The bad news is: $$$$ -- you need hardware to create a profile. Oloneo wants that profile. Here's the best hardware: http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1454

There are less expensive options out there and other folks here should chime in and recommend them.

Joe

This is one post I read at another photography site discussing color calibration:

"Most people use a tool to adjust colour management of their monitor but I returned my ColorMunki and got my money back because its software kept crashing and I found no need to be that precise anyway. In fact I was just as well off having set my monitor by eye before I got the ColorMunki. (I am sceptical of all these tools for amateur use and believe the real tool is colour management paranoia to allow huge sales of these devices)."

Garbz · Jun 11, 2012

Phil2k said:
I believe this is a color management issue and that some of my devices are using different color spaces

Yep you're on the right track. To solve the problem we need to identify a few things.

1. What is the colour gamut of your monitor? Is it a standard sRGB monitor, or is it a Wide Gamut monitor? If it's a wide gamut (often quoted as a % of NTSC or % of AdobeRGB greater than 73%) then you need to setup your software correctly. That is you need to set windows to use a display profile corresponding to the gamut of your monitor, and you need to use software that is aware of your display profile. Some programs are but the vast majority of them aren't, and some which are don't automatically read the windows settings.

2. If you do NOT have a wide gamut monitor then start by removing all the settings in the colour management tab. It's only likely to cause problems unless you have a calibrator and generate your own colour profile.

Report back. By the way what is your exact model make and number?

Phil2k · Jun 11, 2012

Thanks Garbz. I have two of these:

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/vx2450wmled.htm

As far as I am aware, they are generally very good monitors.

hyperdash · Jun 11, 2012

we use viewsonic in our office apart from dell.. and it's pretty good too.. InkJetSuperStore.com inks

iMike · Jun 11, 2012

I have a similar question about what color space or color profile to use on different devices.

Currently my dslr use Adobe RGB 1998, my monitor (HP w2207h) use it’s own color management file, and KmH said lighroom uses Photo Pro RGB, so I am a bit confused what is an appropriate color profile setting to use.

I guess I am not interested to spend extra to get a calibration tool to do that as I am not a pro, but still want to get a reasonable accurate color scheme for causal photo editing use.

Is there a simple solution for that? Should I be better off changing all color spaces to sRGB?

KmH · Jun 11, 2012

Solarflare said:
KmH said:

[...] Raw, can be 8-bit or 16-bit. [...]

Click to expand...

Um.

I specifically know that my own camera, the D5100, uses 14 bit RAW, and other cameras use 12 bit RAW.

The 12-bit and 14-bits is the capture bit-depth.

Raw conversion software converts the 12-bit and 14-bit files to 16-bit files. Many Raw converters allow setting the conversion bit-depth to 8-bits.

Note that in the conversion to a 16-bit color depth, no new color dats is added to the file. The 2 or 4 extra bits added during the conversion serve other purposes, lik space for the XML line commands parametric Raw converters use so edits are non-destructive.