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Composition : Rule of thirds or Golden Rule

Rule of thirds, golden ratio, don't put the horizon in the center, don't crop off limbs, portrait orientation for portraits, rule of odds, looking into/out of the frame, triangles, fill the frame, balance, leading lines - you can find examples of all of these "rules" improving a photo yet there are great photos out there that break these rules as well. While I wouldn't crop a photo or frame something just to follow a rule, it is helpful to practice all of these when you're learning and then as you improve, your "eye" that you have developed will tell you when you have something framed or cropped to best advantage.

OP - to your original question, I don't consciously use either of these rules for landscapes. I concentrate more on framing the shot I want and framing out what I don't want in the shot.
 
Looking up "composition", WIKPEDIA HAS this short article, which even includes the dreaded "rule of thirds" concept, along with more complex, accurate methods of getting a grasp on arranging the elements in a visual composition.

Composition (visual arts) - Wikipedia

Believe me, the idea of plopping down interesting subject matter along grid lines, or at points where those lines intersect, was not how visual composition was taught for the majority of time in the formation of Eastern or Western art.

The "rule of thirds" is not a part of fine art, or master-level photography, but has become a crutch, a walker, to get many people able to create,in many instances, photos that are not horrible, and that meet a certain baseline of not-awful work, in most cases.

I generally dislike Wikipedia as a source, since so many entries there are filled with inaccuracies, folklore, and partial truths, at best, and at worst, outright propaganda, unfounded opinion, and un-researched writings from fanboy and fangirl types.
 
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Looking up "composition", WIKPEDIA HAS this short article, which even includes the dreaded "rule of thirds" concept, along with more complex, accurate methods of getting a grasp on arranging the elements in a visual composition.

Composition (visual arts) - Wikipedia

Believe me, the idea of plopping down interesting subject matter along grid lines, or at points where those lines intersect, was not how visual composition was taught for the majority of time in the formation of Eastern or Western art.

The "rule of thirds" is not a part of fine art, or master-level photography, but has become a crutch, a walker, to get many people able to create,in many instances, photos that are not horrible, and that meet a certain baseline of not-awful work, in most cases.

I generally dislike Wikipedia as a source, since so many entries there are filled with inaccuracies, folklore, and partial truths, at best, and at worst, outright propaganda, unfounded opinion, and un-researched writings from fanboy and fangirl types.


When taught the concepts of composition, as was stated above, the grid was simply a tool. Nothing more.
I frankly couldn't care less its origins, it works.


But composition was also based on the premise that you already had been taught concepts of balance and organization along with a healthy dose of structural form in language and art and math first.

That is where my education failed miserably because the exposure I was given to art, it was assumed I had said pre-requisites. In reality the teachers I had were under orders from the school system to go full rudimentary on everything and bypass the more "complex" concepts because they simply didn't want to waste time and resources.

More to point however is this:

As I previously mentioned, one did not enter the world of art in a vacuum. You had to have a solid grasp of the pre-requisites FIRST, before the Rules of Thirds or any other aspect was taught.
 
SNIP>>>
As I previously mentioned, one did not enter the world of art in a vacuum. You had to have a solid grasp of the pre-requisites FIRST, before the Rules of Thirds or any other aspect was taught.

See this website, for a very different-for-the-web take on composition and design:. It offers a few free lessons, I was conversant with this site perhaps five years ago,and an unsure if Tavis is still selling memberships or not.


You are being redirected...
 
To the OP's question; it appears that for some, photography has evolved from "proper composition" with the advent of heavy post processing. It moved photography from photographs to photo art and "Art" is in the eye of the beholder.

If you are the type that swoons over cubism, or impressionist or other modern art forms, disconnected body parts, juxtaposition and symbolic iconography are normal.

For those that like more traditional photographs, many of old guideline still apply and post processing is used to enhance what people see.

Look at the rule and guidelines as tools in tour toolbox. They help you build your photograph, they do not dictate what photograph you should build.
 
OK. so this was bugging me all night long and I have to finally just write it.

When I go on my rants about education its because many times the arguments are over issues where a supposition is made that is either this or that, but its core, its foundation is something that has absolutely no relevance to the discussion.


here is what I mean:
The premise of the argument is over the "Rules of Thirds". That term is being banted about like its an actual "thing".
It is not.

The "Rules of Thirds" is a tool. A compilation of multiple aspects of composure.
It is a system and a tool of measurement of sorts.

It is neither absolute, nor specific.

The Golden Spiral is based on the concept of a spiral drawn based on prime numbers and 90° points. But like the "rules of thirds" it is a compilation of multiple concepts, ideas and terms.
The tic-tac toe grid that the basis of the argument is over is only a graphical representation of this concept and is not something that is hard and fast.

Like in math, if you were taught long division, you should be able to write out the problem and solve it.
But we have calculators on cell phones so why bother?
If you were to play that metaphor here it would translate to someone arguing that a calculator is illegitimate because its too 'easy" or simple, or quick or whatever.
The same is true with the grid. its simply a tool and one that works.

to argue that such is some fantasy made up in the year...."x" is a fallacy.
It doesn't matter, it works and helps people do something that IMO should have been taught in the primary grades anyway.
 
OK. so this was bugging me all night long and I have to finally just write it.

When I go on my rants about education its because many times the arguments are over issues where a supposition is made that is either this or that, but its core, its foundation is something that has absolutely no relevance to the discussion.


here is what I mean:
The premise of the argument is over the "Rules of Thirds". That term is being banted about like its an actual "thing".
It is not.

The "Rules of Thirds" is a tool. A compilation of multiple aspects of composure.
It is a system and a tool of measurement of sorts.

It is neither absolute, nor specific.

The Golden Spiral is based on the concept of a spiral drawn based on prime numbers and 90° points. But like the "rules of thirds" it is a compilation of multiple concepts, ideas and terms.
The tic-tac toe grid that the basis of the argument is over is only a graphical representation of this concept and is not something that is hard and fast.

Like in math, if you were taught long division, you should be able to write out the problem and solve it.
But we have calculators on cell phones so why bother?
If you were to play that metaphor here it would translate to someone arguing that a calculator is illegitimate because its too 'easy" or simple, or quick or whatever.
The same is true with the grid. its simply a tool and one that works.

to argue that such is some fantasy made up in the year...."x" is a fallacy.
It doesn't matter, it works and helps people do something that IMO should have been taught in the primary grades anyway.

Chicken or the egg. Do we use it because it truly results in more pleasing images or because those who teach us photography expect us to use it?
 
Chicken or the egg. Do we use it because it truly results in more pleasing images or because those who teach us photography expect us to use it?

With respect, that's a false analogy.
Ergo: its not based on that fact.

What i mean is that the rules of composition are a system introduced into art for the specifics of making art aesthetically pleasing or contradictory.
 
Chicken or the egg. Do we use it because it truly results in more pleasing images or because those who teach us photography expect us to use it?

With respect, that's a false analogy.
Ergo: its not based on that fact.

What i mean is that the rules of composition are a system introduced into art for the specifics of making art aesthetically pleasing or contradictory.

Aesthetically pleasing to who? To those who study art then push what they believe is aesthetically pleasing to whom they influence so it then becomes the standard?
 
OK. so this was bugging me all night long and I have to finally just write it.

Ok, long post alert... ;);););)

I agree in part, but disagree with my whole ethos.

Yes there is mileage in dividing the frame into thirds, artists have been doing it for centuries along with dividing the frame into fifths (often mistaken for Golden Mean). It is a very useful visual tool, it allows you to see and assess the image and the balance by dividing the whole into *bite sized* and understandable segments. It somehow allows you to assess the whole by seeing how the *parts* combine.

But there is an inherent danger in the *current* understanding of the Rule of Thirds, (the ROT), in that the lines and the grid are what become important, it's the grid and the intersections that hold the significance rather than the image. It's difficult to explain in words as the whole theory is rather geared to an understanding of *The Grid* or the lines that define it rather than a visual understanding of the image. We are looking at the lines and the intersections rather than the image that exists entirely in the space between them.

I will try to demonstrate with an image or two of mine. If I asked how far across the building was you would not answer in meters but as a proportion. This is important, we see in divisions of a space and not as absolute distance when we confine a view by imposing a frame. When we stand in front of a view and look up, look down, to left and to right it doesn't change but remains consistent, we estimate distances in metres. However when we tilt the camera up or down and impose a limit, a frame around the image and view it vertically on a wall the actual proportions of land/sky affect out interpretation of space and scale. The subtleties of this and their implications are lost when we only look at and seek to understand *The Grid* upon which we make our decision of whether the image is *composed* or not rather than looking at and understanding the image that occupies the space between the lines.

ex-1.webp


In this image I've placed prominent lines or objects on the lines or intersections of The ROT. It conforms to our understanding of composition because it conforms to a pattern we have taught ourselves to recognise. It complies with our understanding and desire to believe that it is what makes our images good. To a certain extent it works. But it is also staid, static, one of a million similar because it concentrates on the placement of *things* rather than a recognition of the scene as a whole and how it's interpreted by a viewer. It only concentrates on how we consider things to be composed by the rules that we learn.

Here is the whole as I originally presented it (the one above is a crop only, nothing else):

img110_sRGB_ss.webp


It still is organised by thirds, but a division of light/dark and higher contrast to lower contrast. The greater proportion of sky tends to imply that the landscape occupies less of the space, it becomes smaller, more diminutive. The landscape is viewed as more expansive, more remote, more isolated in the bigger space. The high contrast in the foreground against the lower contrast in the background increases your sense of depth, the curve of the loch more prominent. There is more of a feeling of light, our visual understanding of light/dark changes because the proportions have changed, (we see different contrasts even though it's exactly the same). The first expresses my understanding of the rules of composition and the second my understanding of how I *feel* about the landscape.

This is lost when you concentrate on the grid and how you understand *The Rule* rather than the image and how the audience relates what they see to their memory, how they interpret it. It is a subtle and important shift in thinking. We invent rules because we want there to be an answer in the numbers, some magic in a formula that we can apply. But the reality is that when you take a photo you must understand how you see and feel about the subject and communicate that. It is only when this happens that images become your own personal view rather than a text book example of somebody else's lowest common denominator. Forget the grid and look at the spaces in between.

In the image below, how is your sense of depth affected by the relative difference in local contrast between the stone surfaces and the background? How does the area of sky influence the sense of isolation and the scale of the stones? How does the area of land affect your understanding of the scale of the landscape? These, I think, are all far more important questions than "what should I place on the grid lines and intersections?"

img108_sRGB_ss.webp


Food for thought, I hope...
 
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Food for thought, I hope...

Again, with respect to you,
the intent of what I posted was not to justify the sole existence of the grid or ROT.
It is my opinion on how two things occurred here.

1: The education system in the US and even UK has been wholly dumed down to a rudimentary level. Ergo: the grid and ROT are being portrayed as rudimentary aspects when in reality they are in effect (and dare I say quite literally) compilations of multiple concepts into an effective form of shorthand. Another way of saying this is through a metaphor: its trying to teach the quadratic equation in a 2nd grade class.

2: Because of the afore mentioned watering down of education, even many teachers are unaware of the concepts and apply it as a specific rule that "must be followed" without giving credence to the fact that it is suppose to be something that is used more as a mixer than a defining aspect. Ergo: add a bit of black to your happy little trees. (Appologese to Bob Ross.)
 
Food for thought, I hope...

Again, with respect to you,
the intent of what I posted was not to justify the sole existence of the grid or ROT.
It is my opinion on how two things occurred here.

1: The education system in the US and even UK has been wholly dumed down to a rudimentary level. Ergo: the grid and ROT are being portrayed as rudimentary aspects when in reality they are in effect (and dare I say quite literally) compilations of multiple concepts into an effective form of shorthand. Another way of saying this is through a metaphor: its trying to teach the quadratic equation in a 2nd grade class.

2: Because of the afore mentioned watering down of education, even many teachers are unaware of the concepts and apply it as a specific rule that "must be followed" without giving credence to the fact that it is suppose to be something that is used more as a mixer than a defining aspect. Ergo: add a bit of black to your happy little trees. (Appologese to Bob Ross.)

I agree with you, we should not be looking at *things*, we spend too much time looking at and trying to capture the absolute reality of *things* rather than thinking of *motivation*, what drives us and how we express it. Your response still relates understanding to things, objects, rather than making any link to what you saw and how you felt when you saw it. Everybody does it, has a feeling associated with how they understand what they saw. Images are about reminding us of that, not capturing the absolute reality of the *thing*...

It is also my experience that the US lead the art world after WWII and that there was an awful lot of very good teaching that came out of it. Look closer and look longer, enquire and find...
 
It is also my experience that the US lead the art world after WWII and that there was an awful lot of very good teaching that came out of it. Look closer and look longer, enquire and find...

for a time perhaps.
But the US education system has badly faltered in the past 3+ decades and is truly a muck and mire of rudimentary thought and tribalism.


As for the other side, I actually am talking about thought and feeling. that is what I was taught in my art classes on composure.
(but I at least had older and more experienced artiest type teachers including my mother).
 

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