Composition : Rule of thirds or Golden Rule

Discussion in 'Photography Beginners' Forum' started by MTHall720, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. MTHall720

    MTHall720 TPF Noob!

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    I have a couple of questions. I've known for years about the rule of thirds but have no experience concentrating on the Golden Rule, which I think may involve spiral.designs. For those who do landscapes do you prefer one over the other or do you use both?

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this


     
  2. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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  3. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    Applying a grid, be it the rule of thirds, golden ratio, golden spiral, golden triangles, diagonals, etc. help us to visualize the elements, but are not the all definitive answer to a successful composition. There isn't much difference in art vs photography when it comes to composition, and as Derrel's link points out there are more important consideration in a composition. Another link The 35 Composition Tips for Taking Stunning Landscape Photos provides an even more detailed look at landscape shots in particular. A good read that goes into greater detail on the elements composition is https://www.amazon.com/Take-Great-Photographs-John-Hedgecoe/dp/1843403307
     
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  4. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Category:Rule of thirds - Wikimedia Commons

    Look at how "the rule of thirds' and the so-called "power points" are marked by areas of uninteresting areas...overlaying a grid of thirds onto many famous, "great" photos reveals the "rule of thirds" to be a mere hoax.
     
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  5. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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  6. Strodav

    Strodav TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    I just find it fascinating that Golden Ratio was studied over 2400 years ago and the rule of thirds first documented in the mid 1700s. This stuff goes back to Roman and Greek architecture, sculptures, and paintings by the masters. Just amazing.
     
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  7. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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  8. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    Late 1700 more accurately according to another link in the Wikipedia link you posted above Rule of thirds - Wikipedia scroll down to history
     
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  9. Strodav

    Strodav TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    Please help me understand your comments. I did a little research online and could not find a "different" rule of thirds. Saw quite a few articles where they laid the 9 square grid over classical art and showed how classical artists used the rule of thirds. Also saw how artists from the time of Michelangelo used grids to help get proportions right. Wikipedia shows the Golden Ratio goes back to 2400 years. Where did I go wrong? I know I studied the Golden Ratio as a young engineer, which was well before the internet era. We used dial up acoustic couplers and AOL was text based. DOS was the operating system.
     
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  10. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    See: Leonardo da Vinci helicopter - development history, photos, technical data

    versus

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_helicopt[/QUOTE]
    Please help me understand your comments. I did a little research online and could not find a "different" rule of thirds. Saw quite a few articles where they laid the 9 square grid over classical art and showed how classical artists used the rule of thirds. Also saw how artists from the time of Michelangelo used grids to help get proportions right. Wikipedia shows the Golden Ratio goes back to 2400 years. Where did I go wrong? I know I studied the Golden Ratio as a young engineer, which was well before the internet era. We used dial up acoustic couplers and AOL was text based. DOS was the operating system.

    See: The Rule of Thirds--Where did it come from?

    A LOT of modern B.S. has been labelled as "truth" in the internet era. The "rule of thirds" was an landscape painting theory in the 1700's,which involved NO "grid", no overlaying, but was,initially, about using 1/3 foreground, 1/3 mid-ground, and 1/3 sky or distant background. until it was first used and called The Rule of Thirds,in the "modern era' in a 1969 Popular Mechanics (yes, you read that correctly) how-to blurb. Same with the so-called "exposure triangle'" a, modern, internet-era creation. The Golden Ratio has been around a long time. BUT, applying it to photographic composition is largely an internet-era thing.

    Laying a grid pattern, or anything else, over classical paintings or photos..often times the results are hilarious. Real scholarship on these topics is difficult in the era of Bing, and Google, which give a lot of weight to new, on-line BS that has is little more than modern 20th or 21st century laymen or novices, parroting what they think to be "true",and hitting the "upload" button.

    "A lie repeated often enough becomes accepted as truth."

    Wikipedia..is FILLED with errors and is "edited" by many people with VERY dubious qualifications. Wikipedia is under constant revision,and one needs no qualification to revise Wikipedia entries.
     
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  11. Strodav

    Strodav TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    Please help me understand your comments. I did a little research online and could not find a "different" rule of thirds. Saw quite a few articles where they laid the 9 square grid over classical art and showed how classical artists used the rule of thirds. Also saw how artists from the time of Michelangelo used grids to help get proportions right. Wikipedia shows the Golden Ratio goes back to 2400 years. Where did I go wrong? I know I studied the Golden Ratio as a young engineer, which was well before the internet era. We used dial up acoustic couplers and AOL was text based. DOS was the operating system.

    See: The Rule of Thirds--Where did it come from?

    A LOT of modern B.S. has been labelled as "truth" in the internet era. The "rule of thirds" was an landscape painting theory in the 1700's,which involved NO "grid", no overlaying, but was,initially, about using 1/3 foreground, 1/3 mid-ground, and 1/3 sky or distant background. until it was first used and called The Rule of Thirds,in the "modern era' in a 1969 Popular Mechanics (yes, you read that correctly) how-to blurb. Same with the so-called "exposure triangle'" a, modern, internet-era creation. The Golden Ratio has been around a long time. BUT, applying it to photographic composition is largely an internet-era thing.

    Laying a grid pattern, or anything else, over classical paintings or photos..often times the results are hilarious. Real scholarship on these topics is difficult in the era of Bing, and Google, which give a lot of weight to new, on-line BS that has is little more than modern 20th or 21st century laymen or novices, parroting what they think to be "true",and hitting the "upload" button.

    "A lie repeated often enough becomes accepted as truth."

    Wikipedia..is FILLED with errors and is "edited" by many people with VERY dubious qualifications. Wikipedia is under constant revision,and one needs no qualification to revise Wikipedia entries.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for helping me understand. After some more readings I found a quote on Pentax Forums by Mattdm on 2/28/2011 that i like:

    "But, whether the ancients or the Renaissance masters used the formula is pretty strongly in the realm of unprovable speculation. What's demonstrable is that the idea of looking for from those artists is something that came into vogue in 19th century Germany, when the idea of such a secret harmony appealed strongly to the philosophical fashion of the time. And it isn't until the 20th century that we have artists unambiguously intentionally using the golden ratio in composition."
     
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  12. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Again, I offer this easy-to-read online article, with comments:
    The Myth of the Rule of Thirds
     
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