Do Clients Always Want More?

[D-B-J]

So, I recently did a photoshoot for two of my friends. Paid (not excessively, but I'm still a newb), and said they could expect 15-20+ images from an hour or so of shooting. I delivered 19, and she insists that there are more good ones etc. and she wants to come look at all the images. Now, I've had this issue almost every time I shoot. I deliver what I think are the best (and some that aren't technically perfect but I know the client will love), and yet they ALWAYS want more. Am I being too selective? Or are they being greedy? I've had lengthly debates with my parents about this topic, and am interested as to what others think. Is it irrational to shoot 275 and deliver 19? I don't know if it's because I'm still so new to portraiture or something else, but I get about 10 GOOD images for every 100 I take. Granted, we were laughing and goofing around a bunch, so a fair amount are silly/unposed images, but still. Maybe I just need to up my keeper percentage?

Cheers!
Jake

 

[IronMaskDuval]

It's a matter of subjectivity. What you may chuck for trash, they may see as treasure, so why not let them look at it....unless your keep rate is like 1%.

 

[Overread]

A few thoughts:

1) Sign a contract - agree how many photos will be delivered within the contract. Your keeper rate basically is always important to increase, but so long as your keeper rate (good keepers) is equal to what you are to deliver within the time frame you are doing well. By all means work on improving it, just don't get fixated upon it beyond estimating shots per hour or so (remembering that new or different situations are going to lower your keeper rate as will imperfect conditions).

2) Understand that most people have no idea about photography and assume that every time the photographer presses the shutter button its an amazing keeper shot that comes out. Reality is far from this, but they will still think there are many more than there really are from the shoot (ergo yes you have to get used to it).

3) It's often good to assume a policy of "If its not in the portfolio it was a bad shot and is deleted". That tends to silence the demands for more. Of course vary this on the situation, some things like a wedding with far off long lost family turning up might well yield more sales even of very poor photos because they show a family member who is rarely seen (lives a long way off etc..). You can also just go with the flat "these are the good ones, nothing else was up to my standards".

4) People are always grabby for more - doesn't matter what sector of the market you are in (although those with more limited funds can sometimes be more grabby because they have to make every coin they spend count).

 

[D-B-J]

It's a matter of subjectivity. What you may chuck for trash, they may see as treasure, so why not let them look at it....unless your keep rate is like 1%.

No, thankfully it's not that bad.

 

[Overread]

It's a matter of subjectivity. What you may chuck for trash, they may see as treasure, so why not let them look at it....unless your keep rate is like 1%.

A photographer has to be careful here to some extent. What you give to clients is what gets shown to their friends and family. It's basically advertising your work. If you let too many low grade photos out there in to the market you might well find it harder to attract customers because people get the impression that your work is average or lower grade (ie its not special).

Look at many great artists and you can often find that it wasn't that they could put out vast quantities of material; but that the few they did produce were simply outstanding.

 

[sscarmack]

I deliver ALL the photos I take, but only edit a handful fully and I put them in two separate folders. I can spend up to an hour maybe even two on one single photo. I don't have the time and their pockets aren't deep enough to pay me to edit every photo I take fully.

All photos go through basic editing, color balance, exposure, contrast.


Why do I care if the client gets all the photos? They paid me, their just going to sit on my external hard drive anyways. Might as well have someone look at them once or twice.


/rambling

 

[robbins.photo]

It's a matter of subjectivity. What you may chuck for trash, they may see as treasure, so why not let them look at it....unless your keep rate is like 1%.

A photographer has to be careful here to some extent. What you give to clients is what gets shown to their friends and family. It's basically advertising your work. If you let too many low grade photos out there in to the market you might well find it harder to attract customers because people get the impression that your work is average or lower grade (ie its not special).

Look at many great artists and you can often find that it wasn't that they could put out vast quantities of material; but that the few they did produce were simply outstanding.

Right..like Stephen King.

Umm.. ok, nevermind, bad example.. lol

 

[tirediron]

I deliver ALL the photos I take, but only edit a handful fully and I put them in two separate folders. I can spend up to an hour maybe even two on one single photo. I don't have the time and their pockets aren't deep enough to pay me to edit every photo I take fully.

All photos go through basic editing, color balance, exposure, contrast.


Why do I care if the client gets all the photos? They paid me, their just going to sit on my external hard drive anyways. Might as well have someone look at them once or twice.


/rambling

IMO, this is a very bad business practice. Letting images go that are not fully enhanced does two things. (1) It dillutes your brand and enhances the expectation of greater delivery for a given dollar value; and (2) It reduces the consistancy of your portfolio. People see you out because they like a particular aspect or aspects of your work. If your work has a multitude of different looks to it, it's going to confuse clients. Likewise if Suzy comes over to visit Sally, and Sally pulls out the disc with 200 images, only 10% of which are fully enhanced, neither are going to know (or remember) which is which, and Suzy, a potential new client instead of seeing 20 great images is going see (and remember 180 so-so images.

As Over said, you need an agreement/contract; even when I'm doing a TFP for a local MM model, I have an agreement which clearly spells out what she can expect. I reinforce this at the end of the session by explaining exactly what they can expect to receive and about how long it will take. On the rare occasion when they do ask for more, I respond with a polite, "No, I'm sorry, that's all of the images that are available. All others have been deleted."

 

[ronlane]

Quote from Jay Maisel - "If you don’t know the difference between the bad photos and the best, you’re always going to be judged by the bad ones, not the good ones."

 

[D-B-J]

Quote from Jay Maisel - "If you don’t know the difference between the bad photos and the best, you’re always going to be judged by the bad ones, not the good ones."

That's a good quote Ron. :thumbup:

 

[sscarmack]

I deliver ALL the photos I take, but only edit a handful fully and I put them in two separate folders. I can spend up to an hour maybe even two on one single photo. I don't have the time and their pockets aren't deep enough to pay me to edit every photo I take fully.

All photos go through basic editing, color balance, exposure, contrast.


Why do I care if the client gets all the photos? They paid me, their just going to sit on my external hard drive anyways. Might as well have someone look at them once or twice.


/rambling

IMO, this is a very bad business practice. Letting images go that are not fully enhanced does two things. (1) It dillutes your brand and enhances the expectation of greater delivery for a given dollar value; and (2) It reduces the consistancy of your portfolio. People see you out because they like a particular aspect or aspects of your work. If your work has a multitude of different looks to it, it's going to confuse clients. Likewise if Suzy comes over to visit Sally, and Sally pulls out the disc with 200 images, only 10% of which are fully enhanced, neither are going to know (or remember) which is which, and Suzy, a potential new client instead of seeing 20 great images is going see (and remember 180 so-so images.

As Over said, you need an agreement/contract; even when I'm doing a TFP for a local MM model, I have an agreement which clearly spells out what she can expect. I reinforce this at the end of the session by explaining exactly what they can expect to receive and about how long it will take. On the rare occasion when they do ask for more, I respond with a polite, "No, I'm sorry, that's all of the images that are available. All others have been deleted."

I disagree with this entirely, but I respect your point of view.

People want quantity more than quality.

If they had to choose between 500 okay photos or 20 good ones, I bet 9/10 times they choose the 100.

The number one question I get asked is how many photos I take. People don't care if you go in and touch up every single hair and clone stuff out. As long as its exposed properly and looks good, they don't care. At least from what I've noticed in the past five years of doing this. Maybe its just my 'area'.

I simply tell people, I pick out my favorite from the sets and edit them fully, and only edit the others for presentable looks (Exposure, contrast, etc) (I don't touch up skin, remove stuff, etc) but they are still presentable.


Just my opinion, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And its working for me.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I think you sort of answered this yourself - yes you need to increase your keeper rate, no it doesn't make sense to take 275 photos and provide 20. Your friends aren't dummies (at least I would think that), they know you fired off a helluva lot of shots - so where are they?? They can't help but realize how much you fired off your camera - and they got 20 pictures? Probably doesn't make sense to them.

I've done sports/events and I learned how to get it in camera most of the time, but a higher keeper rate would give you less crappy shots to sort thru and more usable shots to be able to use.

You probably need to work toward handling shoots in a more business like way to be taken seriously as a pro photographer. If you want to take photos of your friends just for practice and to have fun with it, make it clear that's what you're doing, taking lots of photos to learn and get in some practice - help them have realistic expectations.

 

[KmH]

People that came to me that wanted quantity rather than quality got referred to some other photographer.

The list of those other photographers was always changing because those other photographers kept going out of business.

 

[D-B-J]

People that came to me that wanted quantity rather than quality got referred to some other photographer.

The list of those other photographers was always changing becuase those other photographers kept going out of business.

Seems legit. I've been trying to "start" a business. Nothing official yet, just ramping up photo-shoots and editing practice and website building etc. I realize I need to up my keeper rate, but I refuse to provide shoddy photos just so they can "have a bunch." Is it irrational to take 20 photos of a single pose and only give them one? I just received a message to the effect of "given what we payed ($50) we expected more but that's okay." Kind of a slap in the face, given that I stated (yes, next time I will have a proper contract... Face palm) that I'd provide 15-20 final images.

/endrant




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[tirediron]

People that came to me that wanted quantity rather than quality got referred to some other photographer.

The list of those other photographers was always changing becuase those other photographers kept going out of business.

^^This. Perahps a difference in our clientle as well; the vast majority of my client base is 50+ with a signifiant portion of them being >65. They almost exclusively tell me what they want and don't care how I get there. None of them have ever asked about digital files let alone how many they get.