Do you have protection?

[Tbini87]

Not yet though have been looking into it. I guess it is called something like self-insurance... paying out of pocket for losses instead of being insured. I don't think we are doing enough work to warrant carrying insurance yet.

You're right about self-insurance.
Do you have a couple million $$$'s laying around to be effectively self-insured?

Nope. I don't have life insurance yet either. I guess you could call me a risk-taker, or moron, or anything else you choose.

 

[Tbini87]

I thought this would be a fun topic. I just wanted to give people something to think about. You can be sued whether the case has merit or not.

I was sued by my former employer, for starting my own business. He left the building I am in, and left a hole. I filled it. I didn't have a non-compete clause, or anything of the sort. He sued over stealing his customers.

The lawsuit started at $150k, and the suit changed over time. They were looking for any angle they could take. The court system sucks. Across the year this took place, we never saw a judge. We filed for summery judgements, to avoid jury by trial. Judges would rather have it go to trial, so a decision is not on their record. Long story short, We settled for $3k. If it went to trial, it could have cost $10k more.

What did it cost me? $21k.

While my example isn't photography related, it is an example of things happening that you never thought would.

So while we don't like to think of bad things happening, and the probability is that they probably won't. You need to ask yourself what happens when somebody falls down the stairs going to your basement Photography Studio for that $50 portrait session. If you suggest the location for your $20 outdoor shoot, and something happens...

Was this $21k from your company, or did you have insurance that covered that?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I did not have insurance to cover it. I now have a $1Mil umbrella policy that would have. ($240/year)
The lawsuit was against me as a person, and not against my company.

Mind you I am not a pro insurance kinda person. I feel it is a market based on fear.
But there is a reason to have it, and you never know when you need it.

I am now looking at unemployment insurance, since I am self employed, in case I can't work due to illness or accident. These are all costs of doing business, and things we don't think of when we are starting up a business.

 

[KmH]

Not yet though have been looking into it. I guess it is called something like self-insurance... paying out of pocket for losses instead of being insured. I don't think we are doing enough work to warrant carrying insurance yet.

You're right about self-insurance.
Do you have a couple million $$$'s laying around to be effectively self-insured?

Nope. I don't have life insurance yet either. I guess you could call me a risk-taker, or moron, or anything else you choose.

Then you're not self-insured either.

 

[el_shorty]

We have our insurance through Hill & Usher, we have the Package Choice, which is insurance specifically for photographers. I'm not sure of all the details since my girlfriend is the one who takes care of that, but I know we pay $720 a year for $20K of equipment coverage, $2 million liability and errors and omissions, it also covers us if our equipment is damaged or stolen overseas, and it covers rental equipment while our equipment is being replaced or repaired.
​

 

[pharmakon]

We have our insurance through Hill & Usher, we have the Package Choice, which is insurance specifically for photographers. I'm not sure of all the details since my girlfriend is the one who takes care of that, but I know we pay $720 a year for $20K of equipment coverage, $2 million liability and errors and omissions, it also covers us if our equipment is damaged or stolen overseas, and it covers rental equipment while our equipment is being replaced or repaired.​

That brings up another scenario, errors and omissions... would that be like like a corrupted card or such that leaves a bride and groom with no photos? I imagine they could sue you to pay for a reshoot, including venue and wardrobe rentals.

oh and for the record I have personal umbrella insurance, legal plan, and professional liability insurance for my day job (and that is above and beyond the "insurance and legal aid" my company claims to have for me in case i make a mistake on the job)

 

[Tbini87]

You're right about self-insurance.
Do you have a couple million $$$'s laying around to be effectively self-insured?

Nope. I don't have life insurance yet either. I guess you could call me a risk-taker, or moron, or anything else you choose.

Then you're not self-insured either.

Depends on how much we could be liable for. I'm not one to constantly worry about what "could" happen if I get sued. People can sue for just about anything... and I'm not sure there is enough insurance in the world to protect people from lawsuits. I am not sure that anyone would even waste their time taking action against a college kid with no money.

 

[Tbini87]

I did not have insurance to cover it. I now have a $1Mil umbrella policy that would have. ($240/year)
The lawsuit was against me as a person, and not against my company.

Mind you I am not a pro insurance kinda person. I feel it is a market based on fear.
But there is a reason to have it, and you never know when you need it.

I am now looking at unemployment insurance, since I am self employed, in case I can't work due to illness or accident. These are all costs of doing business, and things we don't think of when we are starting up a business.

You now personally have an umbrella policy for your personal life, or is it only for your company, or does it cover both?

I totally understand having extensive insurance when your sole income comes from your company. That is definitely something you can throw in as a cost of doing business and write it off. However, I am not sure that a casual hobbyist that does shoots for friends and gets paid a minimal amount of money needs to be carrying $10k equipment insurance + a couple million in liability. Can the average joe write off insurance coverage when filing taxes?

 

[KmH]

Depends on how much we could be liable for. I'm not one to constantly worry about what "could" happen if I get sued. People can sue for just about anything... and I'm not sure there is enough insurance in the world to protect people from lawsuits. I am not sure that anyone would even waste their time taking action against a college kid with no money.

You could be liable for all of it.

You have web site with a page that shows your prices (investment). Hardly the kind of thing a "casual hobbyist" has.

http://www.chico.ca.us/finance/business_in_chico.asp

 

[Tbini87]

Depends on how much we could be liable for. I'm not one to constantly worry about what "could" happen if I get sued. People can sue for just about anything... and I'm not sure there is enough insurance in the world to protect people from lawsuits. I am not sure that anyone would even waste their time taking action against a college kid with no money.

You could be liable for all of it.

You have web site with a page that shows your prices (investment). Hardly the kind of thing a "casual hobbyist" has.

City Finance - Departments - City of Chico

I could be liable for all of "it"? What is "it"? That was my point. Anyone could be liable for any amount of money. There are endless possibilities out there for being sued and I don't dwell on those. I understand that I could be liable for everything I own (which isn't much anyways). I have to think about what things I am doing and how likely they are to result in an action being brought against me. If I feel the odds are low, then maybe insurance is a bad bet. If you think the money spent on insurance is worth it for the peace of mind you get from it then great! We definitely plan on getting insurance in the near future. However, we don't have a lot of work lined up and don't feel the need to be carrying insurance that we won't be using. Is it even possible to have enough insurance to cover every possible thing that "could" go wrong. Is a million enough for every possible situation?

We are working on building a business and plan on picking up insurance once we feel we need it. We are in the very beginning stages of building our business. We are just emerging from the amatuer/hobbyist stage. I felt like the original post was aimed more at the casual hobbyist who might make $50 on a family shoot for some friends. I don't think Bitter was aiming this at professional shooters who have been running succesful operations. For seasoned pros I think good insurance is a no brainer. However, we aren't going to be carrying insurance when we aren't doing much work.

 

[Tbini87]

^ Oh, and I meant to ask if the link you posted was about insurance? Thanks for the link, we have been looking into these steps (going to be a sole prop and I don't think we will need a fictitious name or DBA. We are also not sure if we are selling "goods" or simply offering services if we aren't selling prints but are giving CDs of the images to the client. I am guessing that the CDs would be viewed as goods but still not sure on that.).