Giving CCs

Robin Usagani · Jan 9, 2012

A couple of close TPF friends have told me that I am being way too blunt. That is why I am always in all of this drama. I have talked about this with a well established wedding photographer. He almost never give anyone a CC. If he did, it will be very simple and quick. Most of the time he will only comment on photographs that impresses him. He specifically tells me that giving people CCs on public forum wont benefit me at all and it is not even worth it. I should just keep the critiques to my self and learn from it. So my 2012 resolution is to just take a few steps back and just focus on my self rather than worrying about other people. I will probably just CC people who I periodically interact with and have established a mutual respect. I am 9 days late.. but I will start today. It wont be easy!

Compaq · Jan 9, 2012

In my own opinion, if you ask for C&C, you should give C&C to your abilities. That's not aimed at you, because I'm not sure if I've ever seen you ask for C&C

Still, I think there's much to learn from learning what some people think should be better, and what some people think is great. There's a floating line between "opinions of what makes it better", and "things that really do make it better".

On a side note, this place focuses too much on the technical aspects of the C&C. There should be more focus on composition.

tirediron · Jan 9, 2012

Okay...

jaykilgore · Jan 9, 2012

Schwettylens I agree with your mentor!

The biggest problem I have with people critiquing is there is a way to critique and not a lot of people understand how to do it. Most of the critiques I see, are people basically saying how they would have shot it and not offering any sound advice.There's a huge difference in how you would shoot it and how to critique it. Further more, imho, it's difficult to critique someones vision. Photography is about perception and vision and interpretations. You can't tell someone they didn't get their take of the instance correct.

I once posted a photo that I cross processed. I had a guy tell me he was a shooter for 50 years and the photo colors were off. Ummm...if you were a shooter for 50 years, then you should for SURE know what CP is. Critiquing is a way for unimportant people to appear important and impress new people on forums imho.

Trever1t · Jan 9, 2012

I agree, the critique here tends to come across pretty rigid but it's ok, I learn from every comment left me. Schwetty, you do come across brash at times but if that's your style so be it. I don't see any need for anyone to react with prejeduce because they receive a comment they don't agree with. We are all adults here aren't we?

That said, perhaps it is wise that you learn from the critique you have also received and grow with it. I almost always agree with your commentary on my work and look forward to hearing direct and clear critique from you when I post so please don't hold back for me.

Compaq · Jan 9, 2012

I'd like to shoot in that comments like "I don't like this" or "that's horrible" are not C&C. Do not even start to defend such comments. Constructive criticism is what we should be aiming for. Yes some people here would argue that "I said I didn't like it, because it's horrible" is valid C&C. Those persons, however, are nothing more than childish trolls. If someone asks for C&C, and you're intending to answer, take the time to explain why you don't like the shots propely! Go through the photographic elements that you think weigh this either up or down.
"I like this shot! It's so beautiful." is as useless to someone looking for real critique than "omg, this is bad. Good luck with this!".

Robin Usagani · Jan 9, 2012

Yeah, maybe I need to learn the art of giving CC. But what I mean was, even if I did give a proper CC, it will still wont benefit me at all... then why do it?

Trever1t · Jan 9, 2012

I don't believe that giveing C&C isn't beneficial to the giver. It causes you to verbalize, define what it is about the photograph you find tasteful or not, how can that not drive you to improve your own skill set?

sm4him · Jan 9, 2012

Schwettylens said:
Yeah, maybe I need to learn the art of giving CC. But what I mean was, even if I did give a proper CC, it will still wont benefit me at all... then why do it?

Well, I disagree that *giving* C&C doesn't benefit you at all.
Giving C&C benefits ME by:
--Making me *think* about WHY I like particular photos, techniques, compositions, etc
--Helping me to develop "teaching" skills...the ability to take those components that I *know* make a good photo and communicate to another how to do the same thing.
--Sometimes even pointing out errors in MY way of doing things. I've read C&C that I agreed with, but then a few posts later someone says, "No, here's why THIS way is better," and explains how to do something that maybe I've been doing wrong (or at least, making harder than it needed to be).

Beyond that, I agree with the notion that if *getting* C&C has benefitted me, and it has, then it's my obligation as a participating forum member to *give* feedback to others.

Are you kinda harsh sometimes? Yep. You know what you like, and if it's not your thing, you seem to have little use for it. That's not a criticism, just an observation.
And you're not generally as harsh as some I've seen. I've read C&C from some people, and my first reaction is "Dude...go take your meds..." :lol:

For me, ALL the C&C is valuable, because it not only tells me what I could do better, but just gives me an idea of how what I've done is getting received by people who actually have some knowledge about photography, not just the general public.
I guess I don't really take offense to the occasional "harsh" tones because, while I value ALL the opinions...at the end of the day, it's MY photo, and I have the confidence to decide whether *I* like it or not, and whether *I* think it's worth keeping, improving upon, or just fodder for file 13.

Granted, I also grew up with three older brothers, an older sister and two older cousins who lived next door and were basically sisters...so, being the youngest of 7 kinda teaches you how to take some criticism.

Joey_Ricard · Jan 9, 2012

The only thing I expect from giving a C&C is the possibility of helping someone. Are you expecting something in return (a benefit)? Is giving a C&C supposed to help the person giving the C&C? That would be like holding the door for someone with the sole intent on being thanked.

So how does one give a C&C to someone that just posts a pic and says "C&C please"? Techinical aspects are usually what I would think they are looking for, but when someone just says "go retake the shot" without actually specifying what could be "more pleasing", then, I wouldn't think that it is helpful at all.
Obviously Composition and Exposure tips would be what I think they are asking for.

sm4him · Jan 9, 2012

Joey_Ricard said:
Are you expecting something in return (a benefit)? Is giving a C&C supposed to help the person giving the C&C? That would be like holding the door for someone with the sole intent on being thanked.

+1

Compaq · Jan 9, 2012

I don't really mind harsh comments as long as they contain explanations. Harsh comments and no more than that are wasting people's time. Some people in here do it, and lengthy discussions about how beginners are thin skinned go on for days and days. As long as those comments explained their view points I won't say anything. However, often respected people in here just say something rude and short (yes, those are rude) and claim that the beginners should be able to handle criticism as they asked for it. But they're not getting critique, they are getting idiotic words that are no good for anyone. If the the opinion is not explained, then the OP won't know how to improve or not.

"This is a horrible shot, the colours are all off!" is also pointless and rude. Many people defend those comments, but there's no defending them (imo), as they don't teach the OP anything - except that the colours are off.....which basically could mean anything.

cgipson1 · Jan 9, 2012

C&C (especially on a forum with so many beginners) should be a short brief of the problems... and then how to correct those problems (within reason, of course). If the shooter doesn't even have a basic understanding of how to use their camera, or what the exposure triangle is... then you are limited in what you can assist them with, other than links to sites, or suggested reading.

I do agree that C&C like "the face is too bright, but still a nice shot" is not really adequate...