Help a newb take good pictures tomorrow (Thanksgiving)

Rocketman1978 · Nov 21, 2012

I am new to photography and in the last 6 weeks bought the following:

Canon EOS T3i KIT w/18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS and 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III
Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM prime
Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS
Manfrotto MK293A3-A0RC2
Outfitted all 3 58mm lenses with Canon UV filters.
Tamrac backpack to carry all of the above, plus several class 10 32GB SD cards, etc.

Just last Saturday I had my first one-on-one DSLR class with the owner of my local shop, it was very, very helpful but now I need to apply my knowledge at 2 Thanksgiving dinners tomorrow. I don't want to spoil the whole day with bad pictures, especially since its my 6-week old's first Thanksgiving. I've been shooting in "P" mode since I bought the rig because I KNOW I'm not ready for "M" and I'm not looing for point-n-shoot with the auto settings. I just wanted to see what you recommended I shoot in tomorrow (P, AV, TV) to get some good pictures tomorrow, maybe any tips you may have for this beginner. I plan on using my primarry lens: 18-135mm and may occasionally flip to my 50-prime, I will be indoors with a decently lit house and the forecast for tomorrow is partly cloudy.

Thanks in advance everybody! I appreciate any help you give, this is my first event with more than just my wife, daughter and I, and I'm pretty excited.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

TCampbell · Nov 21, 2012

No need to use manual.

Before you take a shot, ask yourself what the priority needs to be. If it's an "action" shot then you need to control the shutter speed. If it's not an action shot then it's usually a better idea to control the aperture & depth of field. Since your shots tomorrow probably wont be action shots, I'd suggest you use Aperture priority mode (Av = Aperture value).

The variable focal ratio 18-135 lens goes from f/3.5 to 5.6. At the wider half of the lens used for indoor shooting you can probably use f-stops from f/3.5 to 4.5. You wont likely be using longer focal lengths. That means you might decide to set the camera Av mode, dial in f/4 and shoot. Your 50mm lens can use even lower focal ratios but you may not like the extremely thing DoF that you get when you're at f/2 or below unless you're being careful with your subjects (if everyone is standing shoulder-to-shoulder at the same distance you can get away with lower focal ratios. If people are at different distances than the DoF will be too narrow to get everyone in focus.)

You'll probably need to dial up the ISO speed for indoor shots. You may find that you need to shoot at ISO 400 or 800. That'll be fine. You'll notice that in very low light situations you may need to boost the ISO up to 3200 or higher and in THOSE situations you'll notice a lot of image "noise" in the photos. You'll have some noise at 800 or even 400 but it'll be low enough that you may not notice unless you inspect the image closely. The higher the ISO the more "noise" you get. So you always try to keep the ISO setting as low as you can while still providing an adequate shutter speed for your hand-held shots.

Good luck!

nmasters · Nov 21, 2012

Wow, that's a lot of gear to buy at once!
If I were you I would use the 50mm for most of your shots because you will need that wide aperture to get sharp photos in low light without having to seriously boost your ISO, but be cautious when using a wide aperture because your depth of field will be shallow, which is a good thing when shooting people. So, check your focus.

Indoors: shoot around f2 or 4 on aperture priority mode, AV mode. Finally, I'd use a relatively high ISO to ensure you have a fast shutter speed to freeze any motion, maybe around 400 to 800, depending on how much light there is. I'd go with 800.

Don't use your built in flash whatever you do.

Try not to shoot in burst mode, try to think about each and every shot. Quality over quantity.

Learn the rules of composition...master them....break them.

Best of luck to you tomorrow.

thetrue · Nov 22, 2012

Use the 18-55. Trust me, you'll need more FoV than the 50 will provide and it's lighter than the 18-135 which (unless you'll be in a mansion) you won't need anything more than 55mm. Yes "tacky" is the kit lens BUT its a very capable lens and with the IS you will most likely be able take photos down to 1/25 or so without much camera shake. Motion blur may occur, but if you are in a bind go in to the menu, limit the MAX ISO to 3200 and use Av mode at the lowest aperture. DO NOT USE THE FLASH and try to set the white balance to something similar to the lighting. Auto WB is actually pretty decent on the T3i, so that may also be something to try out. Good luck and be sure to post a couple of your favorites!!

bratkinson · Nov 22, 2012

If you can even MOVE after TWO Thanksgiving dinners...

I'm guessing the popup flash might popup a handful of times using the 18-55. Realize that all popup flashes are good for about 10 feet and that's it. The popup will also make harsh shadows and tend to wash out (over expose) any faces closer than 8-9 feet, as well. So, as indicated above, try to avoid the flash.

But, with the 18-55 without the flash, shutter speeds will be slower than 1/100th, which may result in subject movement and/or your own movement causing a blur. So make sure there's lots of lights on (take some shots outside while it's still light out, as well!), and feel free to brace yourself leaning against a wall, or being seated, etc, to reduce camera shake.

While the tripod would provide an even better, stable camera platform, setting it up and dragging it around may be a bit of a hassle. I'd probably avoid using it as after getting 're-settled' and ready to shoot, very little would be spontaneous, such as smiles, laughs, etc.

Also, the 50mm would work better in the low light because it can open wider (lower f-stop number), but as mentioned above, the in-focus plane (depth of field) gets thinner and thinner as the distance to the subject decreases and the wider the lens aperture. Note, too, that most lenses aren't quite as sharp when wide open at their lowest f-stop number.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving! And don't eat more than 1/2 a turkey!

KmH · Nov 22, 2012

Step #1.
Take the UV filters off.
UV filters cause more problems than they solve. The image sensor in your camera already has, among others, a UV filter.
If you bought at a brick and mortor store a salesman likley made some nice spiff from selling 3 Canon UV filters.

As far as lens 'protection' UV filters can in fact cause damage to the lens they are intended to 'protect'. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...attered-uv-filter-resulting-lens-scratch.html
LensRentals.com - Front Element Scratches
Dirty lens article
Dirty lens article

Rocketman1978 · Nov 22, 2012

@TCampbell: Thanks for the in-depth advice for a fellow Michigander! I really appreciate the setting-specific advice, I'm just happy I understand most of it, all of the reading and my class paid off. :lmao:

@nmasters: Yeaaaah, that's what my wife said, lol. I am finding I could have made a couple of better choices but for the most part it seems I have built a decent platform to learn. I know this hobby will grow as I am having a blast, so at least I can simmer down next time and buy what would work best for me as opposed to what had good reviews.

@bratkinson: I haven't played much with flash photography, in my class he showed us how to use flash compensation (er I think that's what he called it) and that seemed to be pretty cool and helpful, however I don't feel like I could use it well without lighting up everyones faces. I'll get there, eventually, lol.

KmH: Really? Wow, I didn't even give thought to breaking a UV and scratching the lens. My primary goal behind the UV was to keep the lens clean, I am very careful with my electronics having worked in IT for 15+ years, so I think the likelihood of lens breakage is minimal. Do you use that squeezable air blower device to keep your lens clean or are those microfiber clothes okay to use that they sell at the camera shop?

As for the others' advice, thanks to you as well, I think I am going to try a bit of everything today and see what works best. With a few hours at each dinner I should be able to see what works well. I really appreciate the settings-advice you guys give, while I learned about shutter speed, ISO and aperture in my class, application seems to be the difficult part. I plan to take a follow-up class or two, especially if the take us out into the field for application, that's where I learn best, hand-on. Unfortunately my few friends with DSLR's are at the same point I am, lol.

This was my first post here and I very much appreciate the help and acceptance of my inexperience! Happy Thanksgiving to all!

JSER · Nov 22, 2012

Good luck I think you are trying for too much at one.

MY advice would simply be RELAX, calm down, and ENJOY or you will be so het up and OTT you WILL make mistakes.

Remember it costs nothing to take 1000 photos you are not using film, put the camer on AUTO and if shooting indoors use a STOFEN.

How to use a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce (Softie) flash diffuser correctly. - YouTube

Tee · Nov 22, 2012

Seriously, man....just shoot. Use the mode you're most comfortable in and enjoy the day. And yes, take that cheap UV filter off. :lol:

Rocketman1978 · Nov 22, 2012

JSER said:
Good luck I think you are trying for too much at one.

MY advice would simply be RELAX, calm down, and ENJOY or you will be so het up and OTT you WILL make mistakes.

Remember it costs nothing to take 1000 photos you are not using film, put the camer on AUTO and if shooting indoors use a STOFEN.

How to use a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce (Softie) flash diffuser correctly. - YouTube

Thanks for the advice, though I am trying to learn my settings and how they impact the end result and I can't do that with auto. In discussing auto versus advanced settings with my shop's owner, it seems that the AV and TV modes are that happy medium, or bridge in between auto and fully manual. I'm enjoying myself, its tips like those above that really help me grow and learn.

2WheelPhoto · Nov 22, 2012

KmH said:
Step #1.
Take the UV filters off.
UV filters cause more problems than they solve. The image sensor in your camera already has, among others, a UV filter.
If you bought at a brick and mortor store a salesman likley made some nice spiff from selling 3 Canon UV filters.

As far as lens 'protection' UV filters can in fact cause damage to the lens they are intended to 'protect'. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...attered-uv-filter-resulting-lens-scratch.html
LensRentals.com - Front Element Scratches
Dirty lens article
Dirty lens article

....and throw them as far away as you can =)

thetrue · Nov 22, 2012

I wonder if the camera store would take them as a return...?

TCampbell · Nov 22, 2012

BTW, you may have noticed a few people telling you not to use the built-in pop-up flash. I was going to talk about that, then thought it might be a much for one post so I left it out. But since it's come up, I may as well go ahead and discuss it.

The built-in pop up flash is ok in a pinch but it's the least desirable form of light. I'd use one as a fill-flash for shooting outdoors in full-sun because the sun can leave deep harsh shadows. A fill-flash can weaken the shadows by filling in a little light. Shooting with it outdoors in sunlight is probably the only time I'd use one. If you look at Canon's pro bodies, they don't even include a pop-up flash... pro and advanced amateur photographers wont use it.

To create a nice looking photo with good "light" you also need good "shadows". When light comes from the side (or a pleasant angle) then you get some shadow which shows more surface texture and detail. If that light originates from a fine pin-point source then the transition from light to shadow will have a hard edge. If the light is diffused so that it appears to originate from a broad surface then you get very soft gentle transitions. The look most people prefer is a nice soft shadow transition from the side. You can get that with a pop-up flash.

With an external flash you can tilt the flash head up and "bounce" the light off the ceiling. This works if the ceiling is white (if it isn't white then the light will pick up a color cast) and preferably not too high (light spreads out as it travels... if it travels too far then it'll have spread out too much to offer adequate illumination for the photo.) Bouncing gives you a shower of light off the ceiling, you get more natural looking shadows and since the bounce will cause the light to reflect down from a broad area you also get very soft shadow transitions. It's great lighting. Sure studio lights would be even better... but when you're shooting on-the-move then a bounced light is usually one of your best options. The only caution I'd suggest is that if you're TOO close to a subject then the light is bouncing nearly over the head of your subject (rather than at some point several feet in front) and this can cause deep shadows in the eye-sockets (raccoon eyes). Tilting the flash head slightly forward to "feather" the light (so you get some light from over-head and some light from the front) helps fill those in. They also make little domes you can pop on the flash head so that most of the light shoots through but some light scatters sideways... it has the same effect as feathering the light by tilting the flash head forward a bit -- even a white 3x5 index card strapped to the back side of the flash head with a rubber band will kick a decent amount of light forward (and also provides a "catch light" reflection in your subject's eyes... also usually a desired effect. They now make flashes with a slide-out "bounce / catch light" card.

JLMILLS · Nov 22, 2012

Honestly, with one or two days notice, (now the day of) be comfortable. If you are comfortable with your knowledge on one setting vs another then you will be more interactive and sieze the moment to capture those intimate family photos. Start shooting early in the day...during clean up, prep, set up, etc...and learn your lighting needs, obstacles, and limitations. Troubleshoot them now and make adjustments. Most importantly, have fun!!

Rocketman1978 · Nov 22, 2012

TCampbell said:
BTW, you may have noticed a few people telling you not to use the built-in pop-up flash. I was going to talk about that, then thought it might be a much for one post so I left it out. But since it's come up, I may as well go ahead and discuss it.

The built-in pop up flash is ok in a pinch but it's the least desirable form of light. I'd use one as a fill-flash for shooting outdoors in full-sun because the sun can leave deep harsh shadows. A fill-flash can weaken the shadows by filling in a little light. Shooting with it outdoors in sunlight is probably the only time I'd use one. If you look at Canon's pro bodies, they don't even include a pop-up flash... pro and advanced amateur photographers wont use it.

To create a nice looking photo with good "light" you also need good "shadows". When light comes from the side (or a pleasant angle) then you get some shadow which shows more surface texture and detail. If that light originates from a fine pin-point source then the transition from light to shadow will have a hard edge. If the light is diffused so that it appears to originate from a broad surface then you get very soft gentle transitions. The look most people prefer is a nice soft shadow transition from the side. You can get that with a pop-up flash.

With an external flash you can tilt the flash head up and "bounce" the light off the ceiling. This works if the ceiling is white (if it isn't white then the light will pick up a color cast) and preferably not too high (light spreads out as it travels... if it travels too far then it'll have spread out too much to offer adequate illumination for the photo.) Bouncing gives you a shower of light off the ceiling, you get more natural looking shadows and since the bounce will cause the light to reflect down from a broad area you also get very soft shadow transitions. It's great lighting. Sure studio lights would be even better... but when you're shooting on-the-move then a bounced light is usually one of your best options. The only caution I'd suggest is that if you're TOO close to a subject then the light is bouncing nearly over the head of your subject (rather than at some point several feet in front) and this can cause deep shadows in the eye-sockets (raccoon eyes). Tilting the flash head slightly forward to "feather" the light (so you get some light from over-head and some light from the front) helps fill those in. They also make little domes you can pop on the flash head so that most of the light shoots through but some light scatters sideways... it has the same effect as feathering the light by tilting the flash head forward a bit -- even a white 3x5 index card strapped to the back side of the flash head with a rubber band will kick a decent amount of light forward (and also provides a "catch light" reflection in your subject's eyes... also usually a desired effect. They now make flashes with a slide-out "bounce / catch light" card.

Thanks man, great info on flashes! The guy that taught my class said much of the same, the popup is mainly good for filler but not for much else. Until a better flash could be had he said to just play with the compensation to keep from blowing out the scene and to soak up light using my settings.

As for the UV filters, I have bought everything online except for my Tamrac backpack (to my local shop's dismay). Only about $100-worth of UV, not the end of the world. They CAN be useful outside, right? Or are you guys telling me they are a complete waste no matter what?