Help me With Macro

[petrochemist127 152]

I am not totally clear on using the flash. I would think the ambient lighting would be irrelevant with macro. Is that true? You're a few inches away from things, and the flash is blasting them. But maybe the sun is so bright it still matters. The sunlight was starting to fail when I went out, and I wonder if it made things harder.

As with normal photography, it depends on the relative strength of the ambient light & the flash. You can take macro without flash, indeed for static subjects a spotlight is often easier (you can see to focus).

I've taken macro images of halogen bulb filaments (with the bulb on & via dark filters) flash would have been pretty much irrelevant for those shots

 

[William Baroo]

Today I tried the A7IV again. I am having fewer disasters and surprises, so that's good.

I thought I had hit the jackpot when I found a bunch of bugs playing around on some magnolia leaves, so I fired off a lot of shots. The focus peaking kept lighting up on them, so I thought I was going to get some sharp shots. Not so. I will post one of the clearest ones. Useless. I didn't crop it carefully. Just wanted to show how blurry the bug was.

I tried to stay on f18 to see if it improved things. The shots were pretty dark, and when I brightened them up, the colors were sometimes bleached out. Depended on the subject for some reason.

I got some very pretty peach blossom shots, so I'm happy about that. The color is bleached out, however.

Things will get better.

 

[Thiophilos]

... or more usefully aperture & magnification.

This is correct.

With a given camera and your chosen framing (magnification), only aperture controls depth of field. This assumes no cropping. (If you crop the image, then things change, but we'll leave that for another day.)

Focal length has no effect on DOF, but it does change the appearance of the background.

With the Sony A7 IV, you should be able to get good sharpness and good DOF stopping down to f/16, maybe even 1/3 stop narrower. It depends on the magnification. Going narrower increases diffraction softening, which you may notice as vague loss of image quality.

Flash can overpower the sun, but it can also be the other way. Look for double highlights in shiny subjects. One will be from the sun, the other from the flash. To reduce the effect of the sun, use a low ISO, a narrow aperture, and the highest possible shutter speed (= the sync speed).

 

[smoke665]

. The focus peaking kept lighting up on them, so I thought I was going to get some sharp shots. Not so. I will post one of the clearest ones. Useless. I didn't crop it carefully. Just wanted to show how blurry the bug was.

Im not all that familiar with your camera, but I feel certain it can produce a lot sharper image than this!

1. I asked this question way back but you never answered. How close where you to the bug? IF you are less than the minimum focus distance for the lens, then it won't focus properly on anything. Consider your DOF, in macro the the total DOF is very small, even if your focus peaking is indicating focus, the actual area in focus could only be a tiny slice of what you're wanting.
2. I assume you aren't using a tripod, is there a chance you are having movement issues? Use a tripod or other support and go to manual focus. Here's a video With a fractional DOF even tiny movements can show up.
3. If your images are to dark with flash then raise your flash power. Use your histogram, if you aren't showing data from left to right it's underexposed.

 

[William Baroo]

Thanks for the help.

My problem with a tripod is that I have to act fast. Bugs are uncooperative.

I don't know how far I was from the bug. I was trusting focus peaking and moving the lens to get it to work, instead of turning the ring. When it lit up, I figured I was at the right distance.

I will look into the flash suggestions you made.

 

[Thiophilos]

Those little iridescent flies are tough to photograph - but fun. They are tiny, so DOF is narrow. They often spook when the flash goes off, which means you don't get a second chance.

In my experience, getting critical focus just can't be done when handholding and shooting a subject that is moving. Bugs and the stuff they sit on move all the time. So does the photographer. It might be only a few millimeters, but that is too much. It doesn't matter whether you are shooting manual focus or auto focus - the focus will be unreliable. The only way to get sharp shots is to take a lot of them and then choose the best one.

Using a tripod in the field is hopeless if stuff is moving.

f/18 is good, your exposure looks good too.

 

[William Baroo]

I think I am a lot better at choosing shots and editing them than operating a camera with a ton of bells and whistles. My first SLR was a Yashica FX-2 with basic controls, and I was fine with it. Now, there are all sorts of things to trip me up. I'm going to be shooting a lot more so I can master these nutty gadgets.

I wish somebody made a digital clone of the FX-2 to make learning quicker. You can use manual mode with a digital camera, but it's still a quagmire of obscure settings.

 

[Thiophilos]

I think I am a lot better at choosing shots and editing them than operating a camera with a ton of bells and whistles. My first SLR was a Yashica FX-2 with basic controls, and I was fine with it. Now, there are all sorts of things to trip me up. I'm going to be shooting a lot more so I can master these nutty gadgets.

I wish somebody made a digital clone of the FX-2 to make learning quicker. You can use manual mode with a digital camera, but it's still a quagmire of obscure settings.

It is what it is. And we can't change that.

Folks make lists of settings for different cameras and for different situations. You can make your own or borrow from online sources. Write the settings down somewhere, preferably in a document on your computer so you can edit as you refine them.

 

[smoke665]

I don't know how far I was from the bug. I was trusting focus peaking and moving the lens to get it to work, instead of turning the ring. When it lit up, I figured I was at the right distance.

As noted earlier, if you are at or under the minimum focus distance for your lens, you can't get anything in focus.

Rocking back and forth is an old trick to rapidly grab focus, but with macro's the thin DOF requires more precision. A handy alternative to a tripod is a monopod.

 

[William Baroo]

It is what it is. And we can't change that.

Folks make lists of settings for different cameras and for different situations. You can make your own or borrow from online sources. Write the settings down somewhere, preferably in a document on your computer so you can edit as you refine them.

I am giving up my time-trusted learning method of punching buttons at random and seeing what happens. Going through some camera-specific tutorials.

I'm also making a move to the Sony ecosystem.

 

[Thiophilos]

As noted earlier, if you are at or under the minimum focus distance for your lens, you can't get anything in focus.

Rocking back and forth is an old trick to rapidly grab focus, but with macro's the thin DOF requires more precision. A handy alternative to a tripod is a monopod.

He said the focus peaking was lighting up on the subjects. So he is getting close enough.

You gotta learn to love the dipod.

 

[smoke665]

He said the focus peaking was lighting up on the subjects. So he is getting close enough.

But he didn't say "what" part was lighting up. Focus Peaking seeks to detect the focal plane by highlighting high contrast edges. If you look at the video I posted above, you can see the red highlight moving in the hair as he adjusts the focus on the lens. With a wider depth of field, adjusting the focal plane one way or the other, doesn't matter as much, but in macro it's so shallow that a fractional difference can show.

On the fly he posted above the only area I found with any sharpness was on the far right side of the image on the leaf. On the flower the whole image was soft. His equipment is capable of much more, which makes me think there are operator issues, to close for the lens, or movement.

 

[William Baroo]

But he didn't say "what" part was lighting up. Focus Peaking seeks to detect the focal plane by highlighting high contrast edges. If you look at the video I posted above, you can see the red highlight moving in the hair as he adjusts the focus on the lens. With a wider depth of field, adjusting the focal plane one way or the other, doesn't matter as much, but in macro it's so shallow that a fractional difference can show.

On the fly he posted above the only area I found with any sharpness was on the far right side of the image on the leaf. On the flower the whole image was soft. His equipment is capable of much more, which makes me think there are operator issues, to close for the lens, or movement.

Believe it or not, the bugs and the parts of the leaves under them were lighting up. I thought I had it nailed!

 

[smoke665]

Believe it or not, the bugs and the parts of the leaves under them were lighting up. I thought I had it nailed!

The highlight alert is where the camera determined the focal plane was (the absolute exact point where the focus is sharpest) DOF is an amount of diminishing focus in front of and behind that plane until it's no longer acceptable. If your DOF is only an 1/8" and it focused on the leaf rather than the bug, then you've missed focus on the bug. If you want really sharp macro get a tripod.

 

[William Baroo]

I will definitely try using a tripod in those situations where it is possible.