help with canon auto focus in camera vs. Nikon in lens and backward compatibility

[lucyred62]

Hi,

I recently did a post on here regarding buying my first camera, and got many great responses. Since then, I was all ready to get the Canon 60D, but then I went to a store, and played around with the Canon 60D, Nikon d7000, and the Canon 7D. I have to say, I have done so much research that my head is about to burst. I have read so many different things about lens, auto focus etc.

The Canon 7d is beautiful, and feels wonderful, but it is heavy, and I feel that since I really am a novice, this might just be a little too much camera for me. I have seen some used ones on ebay that would make it more affordable, but I am still not sure. I like both the d7000, and the 60d, but feel that the specs on the Nikon are a little better, and it is a little faster.

My question is this. I have read so many different things regarding lens, and their compatibility. The biggest thing that the guy in that camera store said was an advantage to the Canon, is that since the auto focus is in the camera, you can use any backward compatible lens, and they will work. In addition, you can buy an adaptor that will then accommodate other manufactures lens as well including Nikon. He told me that Nikon has the auto focus in the lens itself, and this makes buying extra lens more expensive, and you can't use old lens. Now that I found out that the auto focus in the d7000 is in the camera body, I am now more confused. I am now more seriously considering the Nikon, as it faster (per reviews), and I am interested in taking sports, action shots of wild life (birds in flight), but need something that is good also with landscapes and zooming in on wildlife.

I know everyone has his or her preferences, and I respect that. I know there have been many posts of canon vs. Nikon.

I just want to understand the lens situation before I buy one of these cameras. My friend has a canon t2i with the 18-55 and the 70-300-kit lens, but other then that I don't know anyone that I could share lens with. Therefore, I feel this is an investment into a brand and its lens, not the camera per say. I don't want to spend a lot of money, and then after buying a few lenses etc., find out that the lens selection is limited, or that I should have gone with one over the other.

Thanks in advance for any light you can shine on the subject.

 

[Overread16 4]

The guy talking hasn't got a clue. Or more correctly he's not that well informed.

Canon EF range of lenses and bodies has the autofocus motors in the lenses. There is no AF motor in the body at all. This means that the whole EF range of canon lenses should autofocus on any canon EF camera body. However Canon's older mount type of FD will not fit onto any EF bodies without an adaptor (this adaptor requires glass elements and most of the cheap ones on the market are poor performers).
This is, however, really only a consideration if you have a strong desire to shoot with FD lenses or have any in a collection. Otherwise for the more modern purchaser its a non-issue to consider since you'll likely be only ever looking at EF lenses (or EFs)


Nikon however has some differences with its range, I won't speak with any certancy on which models because I honestly don't know. But in short Whilst Canon changed from FD to EF mount Nikon instead shifted from In-body to In-lens auto-focus; keeping the same mount type that they'd always had.
This means that some of the modern nikon bodies have AF motors in them and some do not - again those that do not only really affect older lenses; whilst modern ones are all in-lens AF motor driven.



You are very correct that its an investment in a lens over a camera body; esp for wildlife which is (sadly) one of the harder (more expensive) areas to get into because of the demand for quality, long reaching glass that sadly comes with a high cost.

Canon has, in EF mount, a good coverage with the 300mm f4L, 100-400mm L and the 400mm f5.6 L. If those (new or second hand) are looking to be far too much in cost for you you might want to consider Nikon and some older lenses. I'll leave that to the Nikon people to recommend (from their modern stock Nikon only has a 300mm in the rough same price bracket as the modern canon offerings).

 

[analog.universe]

Well, firstly, sounds like the sales dude was a little backwards....

No Canon body has autofocus motor. All Canon EF and EF-S lenses have focus motors built in to them. Any crop sensor Canon (from the Rebel's through the 60D up to the 7D), will mount and focus any EF or EF-S lens. Full frame's only work with EF. With an adapter, you can mount and operate in full manual mode, any Nikon lens, any M42, some Leica-R, some Contax N, and a few others.

Some Nikon bodies have focus motors. All Nikon AF-S lenses have focus motors built in and will autofocus on any Nikon body. The other Nikon lenses do not and will only autofocus on bodies that have built in focusing motors.

If you're going to shoot sports, wildlife, etc... the decision for me would be between the D7000 and 7D. Canon has a reputation for making some of the best supertelephoto lenses available, which are ideal for the subjects you mentioned. I don't think you'll feel "limited" by choosing one over the other, but I do think Canon offers the better lens selection for what you want to shoot. (I might be biased though)

You didn't really mention how much you're looking to spend (either immediately or down the line). If you're not going to be buying pricey glass, then there's not much difference between one brand or the other. If you do eventually intend on investing a bunch in glass, sports and wildlife would push me toward Canon.

 

[lucyred62]

Thanks for both of your wonderful replies. This is what is so great about this site. I am having a terrible time trying to decide, as the only place I could even handle the different cameras was more of a big box place, and I had to drive over an hour to get there. Many of the small camera places now don't have much inventory( which in today's market I fully understand), so one is left to go to places where obviously people are not that well trained.
So if I am understanding what you are saying, both the newer canon and nikon lenses have auto focus built in to the lens, so there really isn't much of a difference. The advantage of the Nikon d7000 is then that it has the auto focus in the camera, so I could use older lenses, and they would work?

For right now, I don't really want to spend more then 1500-1800 dollars, and want to get the camera with either the 180-135 kit lens for the canon or the 18-105 for the nikon, so that I can have one good all around lens to learn on. Once I get better, and know a little more about what I am doing, I would like to invest in the zoom lens that you mentioned. I love birding, and want to capture their beauty up close( or as close as I can get). I have read somewhere else that Canon does have less expensive but still good zoom lens, and that with Nikon you have go up a lot more in price to get the equivalent.

So I guess my thought of searching ebay to get some old lens for the canon is out, but not for the Nikon. My question also is then, is there really a market for old lens, or do people hold on to them, and just get new bodies from time to time. Thanks

 

[analog.universe]

So if I am understanding what you are saying, both the newer canon and nikon lenses have auto focus built in to the lens, so there really isn't much of a difference. The advantage of the Nikon d7000 is then that it has the auto focus in the camera, so I could use older lenses, and they would work?

Yes.

So I guess my thought of searching ebay to get some old lens for the canon is out, but not for the Nikon. My question also is then, is there really a market for old lens, or do people hold on to them, and just get new bodies from time to time. Thanks

There are plenty of Canon lenses on eBay that will be compatible, so don't rule out getting an old one. You just can't get an FL/FD. The market for used lenses from every manufacturer is quite large. High performing lenses with long reputations tend to sell for nearly the same price that they are new. Some discontinued lenses are so coveted that their price is many times what it was new. Other used lenses can be a great bargain if they were never terribly popular, but still do what you need them to do. Often times a great lens will get upgraded to be even better, and the old version drops in price on the used market.

Have a look at some sites like:
Welcome to Photozone!
LensTip.com - lens review, lenses reviews, lens specification - Lenstip.com
Camera lens tests, user reviews, camera accessory reviews - SLRgear.com!

You can compare how various lenses perform, and decide if they'll work for you either new or used.

 

[Overread16 4]

Note that Nikon might give you an edge, but you might be looking at fully manual only lenses (no AF possibilities). This is a bit more tricky with modern DSLRs since the viewfinder is smaller, less bright and has no focusing aids. You can use the LCD with live-view to magnify the image to help focusing, but this is not ideal for moving subjects (or subjects likely to move at any moment).

Also consider spending less on the body and more on the glass - a 600D from canon (sorry I don't speak Nikon well enough to name their equivalent) used with good quality long glass will give you much better results than if you get a higher quality body but put poorer quality glass in front of it.

 

[DiskoJoe]

The nikon d7000 is a good motor. The 7d is also a good motor. I would recommend this for sports but you would need some nice glass to make it really fast. Something like a 70-200 f2.8 or maybe a 135mm f2. You really cant go wrong either way. So I would say go with the canon since you have friends that shoot canon. This way you could borrow lenses between the two of you. T3i is not a bad way to go for a novice either. Decent motor for the price and your friend would (hopefully) be familiar with it and be able to give you tips on using it.

 

[lucyred62]

The nikon d7000 is a good motor. The 7d is also a good motor. I would recommend this for sports but you would need some nice glass to make it really fast. Something like a 70-200 f2.8 or maybe a 135mm f2. You really cant go wrong either way. So I would say go with the canon since you have friends that shoot canon. This way you could borrow lenses between the two of you. T3i is not a bad way to go for a novice either. Decent motor for the price and your friend would (hopefully) be familiar with it and be able to give you tips on using it.

Hi, so how do you think the canon 60d's motor is. You mentioned the t3i, but I actually like the feel of the 60d better. The 7d is really nice as I have said, but perhaps a little more then I want to spend. thanks

 

[KmH]

To reiterate: None of Canons DSLRs have an auto focus motor in them. I have no idea what 'good motor' in the Canon 7D DiskoJoe is referring to.

At the introduction of auto focus years ago (mid -1980's), most camera makers designed new lens mounts. As mentioned, Nikon was 1 of only 2 camera makers that did not redesign their mount. Nikon has had it's F-mount since 1959.

Canon did redesign their lens mount. Canon eliminated all mechanical connections between their cameras and lenses when they launched their EOS (Electro-Optical System) lineup of cameras and the new EF-lens mount in 1987. Canon's AF-S mount for their crop sensor cameras was launched in 2003. In 1959 Canon used their R-mount, but later replaced it with their FL-mount, which got replaced by their FD-mount, which is what the EF-mount replaced when EOS was launched.

Nikon realized in early 2005 that more amd more women were becoming interested in using a DSLR type camera, but were somewhat put off by how big DSLR cameras were.

So Nikon designed a smaller, more compact, entry-level DSLR they called the Nikon D40. To make the camera smaller and more compact Nikon eliminated the auto focus screw-drive system every previous AF Nikon had had. (Note: Nikon's entry-level line of cameras did not appear in number sequence. The D70 came first, was followed by the D50, D40, D80, D60, D90, D3000, D5000, D3100 & D7000, D5100.)

Nikon's entry-level line up has 2 tiers; the small, compact DSLRs that do not have a screw-drive AF system - D40, D40x, D60, D3000, D3100, D5000, D5100

and the normal size entry-level DSLR's that do have the screw-drive AF system - D50, D70, D70s, D80, D90, D7000.

 

[analog.universe]

The nikon d7000 is a good motor. The 7d is also a good motor. I would recommend this for sports but you would need some nice glass to make it really fast. Something like a 70-200 f2.8 or maybe a 135mm f2. You really cant go wrong either way. So I would say go with the canon since you have friends that shoot canon. This way you could borrow lenses between the two of you. T3i is not a bad way to go for a novice either. Decent motor for the price and your friend would (hopefully) be familiar with it and be able to give you tips on using it.

Hi, so how do you think the canon 60d's motor is. You mentioned the t3i, but I actually like the feel of the 60d better. The 7d is really nice as I have said, but perhaps a little more then I want to spend. thanks

The 60D is a great camera, but it's not targeted toward sports and wildlife. The 7D is better suited to these subjects due to its more advanced autofocus system, higher burst rate, and better responsiveness in general. They both use the same sensor, but the 7D is built specifically as a "high speed" camera.

I would discount the T3i for its ergonomics firstly, but also because of its autofocus.

(I also think the word motor is being used more loosely here to mean "body")

 

[Overread16 4]

If I had around £1500 to spend I:

Would - spend £1000 on a top rate lens (such as the ones I mentioned earlier for Canon) and £4-500 on an entry level rebel body (or 40/50D second hand)

Would NOT - spend £1000 on a 7D and £500 on a less good lens.

 

[lucyred62]

HI, thanks for all that have responded. I have learned a great deal. I have narrowed it down to the Canon 60D, or the Nikon d7000. I really like the Canon 7D, but at this point I feel it would cost me more then I want to spend with everything else I would need( like a case, extra battery, memory card etc.).

I went back to the store and played with the two again. I really like the speed of the Nikon d7000, and the build quality is great. It is a little more money, but when comparing the two on the internet, the Nikon seems to always have better rating consistently. That being said, as everyone has pointed out, they are both good cameras. The things I like better about the Canon is that I like the grip a lot better(just feels better in my hand for the short period I was using them), and that it has a the movable screen.

My questions at this point are:
1: Do people feel that the adjustable screen on the Canon 60D is really important and;
2: As people have mentioned, are there better zoom lens for birding etc. for Canon vs. Nikon, and would I have to spend a lot more money to get a good zoom lens for the Nikon.

At this point I am leaning toward the Nikon, but I guess I am concerned about the available of good quality, but affordible lenses with the Nikon.

Thanks