Keith,
Read the fine print. If you post a link to one of the tutorials always post a link to the Tutorial Directory as well.
Digital Photography Tutorials
That way they can look up other things they don't understand.
Last edited:
help with group photos
- Thread Starter htc8p
- Start date
Read the fine print. If you post a link to one of the tutorials always post a link to the Tutorial Directory as well.
Digital Photography Tutorials
That way they can look up other things they don't understand.
TCampbell
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As has been pointed out... this is a problem with focus selection and depth of field.
The "depth of field" is the range of distance within which subjects will appear to be acceptably focused.
Suppose you zoom your lens to a 50mm focal length. You want to take a photograph of a subject which is 12 feet away from the camera. You are using f/5.6. With this combination, the "depth of field" is 3.81' from front to back. Subjects from 10.4' to 14.2' will be acceptably focused. (I didn't calculate this in my head -- I looked it up.) That's a good setting for a photo of just one person, but not for a group.
Suppose I change to f/11 but leave everything else alone... now the "depth of field". Just changing the aperture (f-stop) on the lens, alters the depth of field. Now the depth of field is 8.24' from front to back and subjects from 9.16' to 17.4' are acceptably focused.
Of course when you change the f-stop to a higher value, the opening in the lens gets smaller and that means less light can pass through the opening. To compensate the camera needs to take a longer exposure to collect the same amount of light. This "trade off" can be between ISO setting, shutter speed, and aperture size. The three are what are referred to as the "Exposure Triangle".
The computer in the camera will handle this automatically and gets it right more often than not (but not always). The "not always" is why having a good foundational knowledge about how photography works will save the situation. It will not be a mystery as to why the shot did not result in a good exposure.
If you set the camera to aperture-priority mode (on your camera that's the Av setting on the dial... Av means "Aperture value") and then dial in an aperture of f/11 (actually if you're shooting a wider angle ... such as 35mm or wider, then even f/8 would be fine.) then the camera will take care of the shutter speed.
Next... don't use all the focus points when doing a group shot. Tell the camera to use the center point only and put the center point carefully on a person in the middle row when focusing the camera.
Why? This has to do with how the camera selects focus. When you attempt to focus, the camera does not know what you intended to photograph. It "assumes" that you probably want to focus on the closest subject and everything else is considered "background". Due to the nature of how the "phase detect auto-focus sensor" works, it's actually able to measure relative distances. So as it evaluates all of the possible focus points, it knows WHICH focus point is able to lock focus using the shortest possible focus distance. It will ALWAYS pick the focus point which can lock focus at the shortest possible distance. In other words... it will focus on the closest thing to the camera (constrained by the fact that it is only looking at the focus points... areas in the viewfinder where there are no focus points are not considered.) The best the camera could have done in this situation is focus on someone in the front row (front left since the shot is slightly angled.) But I don't think it even did this.
Next... the default focus behavior of your camera in "One Shot" mode is to focus the lens until it can lock focus on some focus point... then STOP FOCUSING while it waits for you to shoot. If you move the camera once the camera has locked focus, it will NOT re-focus the shot. This is actually useful to photographers who want to use a technique called "focus and re-compose" where we focus to a subject distance (perhaps by putting the center focus point on that subject) and then re-composing the shot so that this subject is off to one side of the frame or "rule of thirds composition" -- and know that the camera will not attempt to alter the focus when you re-compose (we press the button half-way to get it to focus and then don't release it until we take the shot.)
In this photo, it looks like that large beam/post on the left edge of the frame is focused.
Which the focus to use just one point (the center point) and place that center point on the face of someone in the middle row to lock focus. A middle f-stop value (e.g. f/8 is a middle value) works with wide-angle focal lengths (35mm and below). At narrower focal lengths (e.g. 50mm or higher) then use a higher f-stop to increase depth of field (e.g. f/11 or f/16). Avoid low f-stops for group shots (don't use f/5.6 or lower) because these provide a "shallow" depth of field.
Your DSLR camera is an amazing tool that can really open up a world of photography ... but like any "tool", it only works well when being used by someone who has learned to use the tool. If I don't know how to play a musical instrument, buying a very expensive musical instrument will not help me... I have to learn and refine my knowledge first.
There is a "look" that DSLR cameras are able to provide that point & shoot and camera phones really cannot provide. It's their ability to create a narrow depth of field deliberately.... so that you have a tack-sharp subject with a beautifully de-focused background. You get this "look" by purchasing lenses with low focal ratios (your kit lens that came with the camera won't be able to do it very well.) That type of look doesn't work for group shots (you want a big broad depth of field here). But the reason you're getting these results is being you are using a camera that is able to create a shallow depth of field and it doesn't know what you want.
The "depth of field" is the range of distance within which subjects will appear to be acceptably focused.
Suppose you zoom your lens to a 50mm focal length. You want to take a photograph of a subject which is 12 feet away from the camera. You are using f/5.6. With this combination, the "depth of field" is 3.81' from front to back. Subjects from 10.4' to 14.2' will be acceptably focused. (I didn't calculate this in my head -- I looked it up.) That's a good setting for a photo of just one person, but not for a group.
Suppose I change to f/11 but leave everything else alone... now the "depth of field". Just changing the aperture (f-stop) on the lens, alters the depth of field. Now the depth of field is 8.24' from front to back and subjects from 9.16' to 17.4' are acceptably focused.
Of course when you change the f-stop to a higher value, the opening in the lens gets smaller and that means less light can pass through the opening. To compensate the camera needs to take a longer exposure to collect the same amount of light. This "trade off" can be between ISO setting, shutter speed, and aperture size. The three are what are referred to as the "Exposure Triangle".
The computer in the camera will handle this automatically and gets it right more often than not (but not always). The "not always" is why having a good foundational knowledge about how photography works will save the situation. It will not be a mystery as to why the shot did not result in a good exposure.
If you set the camera to aperture-priority mode (on your camera that's the Av setting on the dial... Av means "Aperture value") and then dial in an aperture of f/11 (actually if you're shooting a wider angle ... such as 35mm or wider, then even f/8 would be fine.) then the camera will take care of the shutter speed.
Next... don't use all the focus points when doing a group shot. Tell the camera to use the center point only and put the center point carefully on a person in the middle row when focusing the camera.
Why? This has to do with how the camera selects focus. When you attempt to focus, the camera does not know what you intended to photograph. It "assumes" that you probably want to focus on the closest subject and everything else is considered "background". Due to the nature of how the "phase detect auto-focus sensor" works, it's actually able to measure relative distances. So as it evaluates all of the possible focus points, it knows WHICH focus point is able to lock focus using the shortest possible focus distance. It will ALWAYS pick the focus point which can lock focus at the shortest possible distance. In other words... it will focus on the closest thing to the camera (constrained by the fact that it is only looking at the focus points... areas in the viewfinder where there are no focus points are not considered.) The best the camera could have done in this situation is focus on someone in the front row (front left since the shot is slightly angled.) But I don't think it even did this.
Next... the default focus behavior of your camera in "One Shot" mode is to focus the lens until it can lock focus on some focus point... then STOP FOCUSING while it waits for you to shoot. If you move the camera once the camera has locked focus, it will NOT re-focus the shot. This is actually useful to photographers who want to use a technique called "focus and re-compose" where we focus to a subject distance (perhaps by putting the center focus point on that subject) and then re-composing the shot so that this subject is off to one side of the frame or "rule of thirds composition" -- and know that the camera will not attempt to alter the focus when you re-compose (we press the button half-way to get it to focus and then don't release it until we take the shot.)
In this photo, it looks like that large beam/post on the left edge of the frame is focused.
Which the focus to use just one point (the center point) and place that center point on the face of someone in the middle row to lock focus. A middle f-stop value (e.g. f/8 is a middle value) works with wide-angle focal lengths (35mm and below). At narrower focal lengths (e.g. 50mm or higher) then use a higher f-stop to increase depth of field (e.g. f/11 or f/16). Avoid low f-stops for group shots (don't use f/5.6 or lower) because these provide a "shallow" depth of field.
Your DSLR camera is an amazing tool that can really open up a world of photography ... but like any "tool", it only works well when being used by someone who has learned to use the tool. If I don't know how to play a musical instrument, buying a very expensive musical instrument will not help me... I have to learn and refine my knowledge first.
There is a "look" that DSLR cameras are able to provide that point & shoot and camera phones really cannot provide. It's their ability to create a narrow depth of field deliberately.... so that you have a tack-sharp subject with a beautifully de-focused background. You get this "look" by purchasing lenses with low focal ratios (your kit lens that came with the camera won't be able to do it very well.) That type of look doesn't work for group shots (you want a big broad depth of field here). But the reason you're getting these results is being you are using a camera that is able to create a shallow depth of field and it doesn't know what you want.
naturallymaternal
TPF Noob!
You should be using a higher F-Stop number one number for every face in the photo, obviously you probably don't have enough numbers so a good high one should work!
i joined my 4 yo sons field trip. so there is always a class picture. some of the kids are out of focus while some are in focus. it is driving me crazy.
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Sussex wedding photographer
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