Help with lights for informal portraits

[Bend The Light]

Hi All,
Tomorrow, I am picking up a set of studio lights. I am borrowing them.
Not sure exactly what they are, to be honest, but I do know there are 2 of them, and they have softboxes which are about 20in square. They are on stands. I believe they have cables to trigger them from the camera hotshoe...
I have NEVER used anything like this before, and I am going to take portraits of dads and kids at a saturday club I go to with my daughter.
I will have the use of a room which is about 12 x 8 ft with windows with blinds at one end. I can put some sort of backdrop up.
Question...based on this (poor, I know) description, what sort of set up would you use?
I have a canon 400d, 18-55 kit lens, or a number of manual focus lenses (e.g. 28mm, 30mm, 35mm, 50mm f1.8), and either hand held or a tripod.
Or, could you give me some ppointers on other ways to approach this?
The dads and kids know I am new, and so are not expecting miracles, but I would like to get a few nice shots of them.
Cheers

 

[Pubb]

New to this type of photography I have done a lot of reading, I have seen a lot of recommendations saying 85mm to 100mm is the optimum focal length for Portraits. I only have a 18-55mm lens and have gotten some good photos of my daughter though just have to be closer. I would say from my experience as a beginner I would use a tripod. My photos are always better that way.

Just a beginner trying to learn here also so take my advice with a grain of salt I could be totally wrong.

Also I do believe there is debate between f8 and f11 being the best aprature for portraits. Though seems pretty consistent people believe it is one or the other.

 

[Rosshole]

remember that your camera is a 1.6 crop sensor too... so that 50mm isn't really 50mm.

 

[KmH]

And cables don't plug into camera hot shoes.

They plug into a camera's PC port if the cable has that type of connector, and the camera actually has a PC port. If not you will need an acessories for the hot shoe or a speedlight that has a PC port.

 

[Bend The Light]

Thanks, guys.
So, a 50mm, or the 18-55mm on the crop gives about 80mm anyway.

I believe that there are accessories for hotshoe...I'll have to check. Although, I have an idea that they can be triggered by light, either, with the IR.

I guess it's a little premature asking for help without having the lights here in front of me! I go and do some research, then come back.

 

[kundalini]

... so that 50mm isn't really 50mm.

Ummmm, it's still a 50mm lens, it's the Field of View (FoV) that changes.



As a starting point, place one light (known as main or key light) at 45° from camera (right or left.... doesn't matter) and just out of frame and high enough to try and get ~45° downlight. Position the light so that it feathers the light onto your subject.... it doesn't have to hit your subject full on. Start power setting at ~1/4 and work up/down from there.

Place the second light EITHER directed at your background or at ~135° from camera as a hairlight to create separation. This also means you should have some distance from model to background - say like 6' if possible. Room size of 12'x8' is small, so if you can shoot through the doorway to increase your camera to subject distance, even better. If you want to blow out the background, increase the power setting ~-2 stop more than the main light. If used as a hairlight, ~3 stops less.

If you can add a reflector opposite the main light, this will help lift shadows and add detail to the models face. Graduated shadows are our friends because they create dimensionality.

Definitely try this out before you actually go to shoot. Tweak as necessary. Good luck.

 

[Rosshole]

... so that 50mm isn't really 50mm.

Ummmm, it's still a 50mm lens, it's the Field of View (FoV) that changes.

Thank you for restating my point...

 

[enzodm]

There are some typical light patterns for portrait, e.g. look here: Portrait Lighting - Portriat lighting set-ups

Regarding lens, it depends also on the type of portrait you do (how much body you take, head only up to full figure). I've been taught to use 50mm (crop or not) for half-portrait, 100 or up for headshot. Less for environmental portrait, which is not your case.
The little debate on 50mm equivalent or not to 80mm is about the fact that you capture the same amount of surface like an 80mm, but perspective and DoF are those of a 50mm - definitely not the same as 80mm. Better more, and walk a little to cover what you want (except that you have a small room so not much room to move).

 

[gsgary]

Keep it simply, you could try Rembrandt lighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or for the females paramount/ Butterfly lighting Butterfly
The trigger i gave you will fire the flashes with the correct lead if it does not come with one, i suspect with 20" softboxes that they could be porta flash lights from Jessops they are big enough for head and shoulders

 

[Bend The Light]

Cheers, everyone. I have followed those links, and will give some of those a try. Looks like a 50mm will be in order for 1/2 body shots. I may get another chance the week after when I could change things a little, woith a wider lens, and go for some fuller body shots...we'll see how the first set goes.

I forgot about the trigger, Gary...I could use that if nothing else...Thanks.

Cheers for the advice, everyone - I will probably be back tomorrow when I actually have the lights! :er:

 

[o hey tyler]

... so that 50mm isn't really 50mm.

Ummmm, it's still a 50mm lens, it's the Field of View (FoV) that changes.

Thank you for restating my point...

He wasn't restating your point. He was correcting you, as you were incorrect.

Focal length is dependent to the lens, always has been, always will be. That 35mm you have is still a 35mm, it's just magnified on your cropped body. Doesn't mean it's not a 35mm, it just means that in the application you are using it for (on a cropped frame body) the FoV is less than a 35mm on a full frame body.

 

[Bend The Light]

I got the lights...

I have 2 x Prolinca 250. Can be half or full power.
There's a couple of shoot through brollies, a couple of reflecting brollies, or a couple of softboxes.
I can trigger one of the lights with my wireless trigger, and the other as slave...Or both a slave from the on-camera flash?
with stands, obviously.
And a couple or more backdrops...

Cheers

 

[Bend The Light]

I just played with the lights. They have a modelling light and the flash I had the triggering from wireless trigger, and one on slave. I also had an OCF behind the model. Used shoot through brollies first, then changed one for a reflecting brolly. Had them about 45 degrees either side, but one 1/2 distance to subject (the reflecting one)

I think the results looked ok...this is the one with both brollies on shoot-through...


dolly test big lights by Bend The Light, on Flickr

what do you guys think?

I'm going to set up on Saturday morning - I'll have aboiut 1hr before they'll be wanting a few shots, so time to set up in the actual room then. Just wanted to be sure I knew HOW to set up. :huh

 

[Derrel]

The lighting looks very low-contrast and "flat". Also, the height of the catchlight within the doll's eyeball looks quite low, and the doll is much shorter than a tall person, so I would estimate from looking at this that the main light, the one camera left, is too LOW. You do NOT want to have two umbrellas aimed in toward the center--that just created dull,flat lighting, where one light cancels out the other, and can also cause conflicting shadows. You want to have one light be STRONGER and much more-dominant than the other light.

By placing two lights, one on either side, aimed in at 45 degrees, your sample photo shows how very dull and uninteresting the lighting is. Now, in a small room, a 12x8 foot room, especially if it has a low ceiling, shoot-through umbrellas (can/may) create a HUGE, muddled MESS of light, with much light bouncing all around the room. Shoot-through umbrellas can often create what is called "ambient spill", because they can send 40 percent of the light through, and the other 60 percent of the light bounces the "wrong way", away from the subject, backwards, and in smaller rooms, this causes tremendous amount of unwanted "fill light".

Please go to this Zack Arias link and look at the photo. zarias.com :: The blog of editorial photographer Zack Arias Shoot Through Umbrella vs. Softbox

Do you see the HUGE amount of spill lighting going all over the studio, from the shoot-through umbrella? Do you see the arrows pointing labelled "Hot spot"? Do you see how the hot spot goes all the way to the ceiling fixtures? THAT is the way a shoot-through umbrella ruins so,so many photos done indoors when it is used as a fill light...it bounces sooooooo much light BACKWARDS, and toward the ceiling AND the flooring, that in smaller rooms, a shoot-through umbrella creates horrible, weak, omni-directional "ambient spill" from the blow-back, and weak, sickly-looking so-called fill lighting going forward. This is most pronounced when one does not have the right type of reflectors on studio lights, but that is grist for another post. Suffice it to say, the test photo setup shown has dull,flat lighting with the lights that YOU have there,at your place.

You need to get the fill light really close to the camera lens, pointed straight ahead, and not off to the side,angled in; that is simply not working. If you use JUST a shoot-through umbrella in that room, and NO fill light, the results might be good to okay. Using one, shoot-through brolly, you'd get main light, and some fill-in from all the spill it creates, in such a small room. Honestly, in a 12x8 foot room, shoot through umbrellas used with "real" studio flash units that have standard reflectors, and not the appropriate spill-kill style that cost extra and which many people fail to buy, are very poor choices for three reasons. People who use shoot-through umbrellas with hotshoe strobes often defend the quality of light they get with shoot-through brollies, but those types of flashes have very directional, all-straight-ahead and very narrow beam spread; studio flashtubes often have a very broad, almost 180 degree beam of light on some flashtubes, 110-145 degree on others, so...shoot-throughs need special use,not general use when used with anything other than hotshoe type flashes.

Summing up: the test shot has too much fill...it is actually more like cross-lighting...two lights at 45 degrees to the subject....great for copying art, but horrible for people. Move one light from between 45 to 30 degrees, and use that ONLY, or use one 30-45 degrees off and a bit higher than in the test scenario, and the other right at the camera and aimed straight ahead. And be aware that when used in several different ways, a shoot-through umbrella is more of an overall ambient light "booster", which is very useful in wedding/industrial/PJ uses, but looks like a beginner is doing the lighting technician work on portraiture.

The pictures done by many people with shoot-through brollies in small camera rooms often look like your sample; two eye catchlights,too low in the eyeball, and flat, uninteresting lighting with exceptionally low, dull, flat lighting, like 1:1.

 

[Bend The Light]

Thanks Derrel.

Glad I tried the lights, at least I know how it all fits together now...

The light to camera left, and closer to the subject was low, yes. The one to camera right was marginally in front of the camera, and about 2 foot to the right.

I will have a look at your ideas. I do have at least one softbox...can that be used to better effect?

I don't have any other modifiers...I have an hour or so before the shoot to set up and try things. And the first one is not so critical...it's not paid...I said I'd do it for the costs and the experience.

Cheers