how to be a good friend in this situation? need opinions

[robbins.photo]

Wait if I get the story right R was married to S and is now in effect divorced without the paperwork.

M is now dating S

Why are you telling R? It's my impression that R is aware that S is dating and seeing other women, hence his reason for no longer living with her. That you happen to know one of his new dates isn't really important to R.

In a very rational, practical sense, you are absolutely correct, Over. The problem is that a "rejected" woman may just be neither rational nor practical. R is still technically married to this guy who essentially rejected her and has started dating other women (instead of either working on the marriage he's in, or officially getting out). That leaves R in a very difficult emotional place, and emotional women are often NOT rational women.

Maria:

M is the one I'd be MOST concerned about here. I wouldn't tell R, at least not immediately.
But if M was my friend, I'd definitely have some concerns. Does M *know* that S is still technically married (whether she knows WHO he is married to is inconsequential, to her)? If she already knows this, then there's not much you can do, other than just share your concern. I'd just say something like, "You know I love you, and I want the very best for you. For that reason, I need to say this, and I hope you will hear my heart. I am concerned about your relationship with S, because if he already left one woman, who he is still married to, and is seeing other women, I suspect that he has no sense of real commitment and will, sooner rather than later, leave you for someone else as well. I'd hate to see you go through that kind of hurt. Please just consider what I'm saying before you get too involved with him." Or something along that line… a gentle, but honest, statement of concern is all you can really give here, though. Despite her emotional issues, she's an adult and the decision to look at this objectively must be hers.

As for R, if SHE brings him up, I'd be honest about the fact that you've discovered he is dating M. But if R doesn't bring it up, I wouldn't either, not for now. You have no idea whether the relationship between M and S is going to last for any time at all, so just wait and at least see how it seems to be playing out before you decide whether you need to talk to R about it.

Ok, so is it M that is now dating S? I thought it was R that was dating S and M was married to him before. Geez... no wonder I sucked so bad at algebra... Lol

 

[SnappingShark]

What would you do if she melted down on the phone?

Hello? Hello? Yeah ... I'm ... I'm about to go through a tunnel - losing signal here ...

 

[runnah]

yes, that would be my choice because I know it will be emotional... but the trouble is... I wont see any of them in person. I'm in another state and not planning to go in their city any time sooner

Well if that is the case I would claim ignorance on the whole subject. But she would be pissed if you found out you knew but didn't tell her.

It's a lose/lose situation.

 

[sm4him]

Wait if I get the story right R was married to S and is now in effect divorced without the paperwork.

M is now dating S

Why are you telling R? It's my impression that R is aware that S is dating and seeing other women, hence his reason for no longer living with her. That you happen to know one of his new dates isn't really important to R.

In a very rational, practical sense, you are absolutely correct, Over. The problem is that a "rejected" woman may just be neither rational nor practical. R is still technically married to this guy who essentially rejected her and has started dating other women (instead of either working on the marriage he's in, or officially getting out). That leaves R in a very difficult emotional place, and emotional women are often NOT rational women.

Maria:

M is the one I'd be MOST concerned about here. I wouldn't tell R, at least not immediately.
But if M was my friend, I'd definitely have some concerns. Does M *know* that S is still technically married (whether she knows WHO he is married to is inconsequential, to her)? If she already knows this, then there's not much you can do, other than just share your concern. I'd just say something like, "You know I love you, and I want the very best for you. For that reason, I need to say this, and I hope you will hear my heart. I am concerned about your relationship with S, because if he already left one woman, who he is still married to, and is seeing other women, I suspect that he has no sense of real commitment and will, sooner rather than later, leave you for someone else as well. I'd hate to see you go through that kind of hurt. Please just consider what I'm saying before you get too involved with him." Or something along that line… a gentle, but honest, statement of concern is all you can really give here, though. Despite her emotional issues, she's an adult and the decision to look at this objectively must be hers.

As for R, if SHE brings him up, I'd be honest about the fact that you've discovered he is dating M. But if R doesn't bring it up, I wouldn't either, not for now. You have no idea whether the relationship between M and S is going to last for any time at all, so just wait and at least see how it seems to be playing out before you decide whether you need to talk to R about it.

Ok, so is it M that is now dating S? I thought it was R that was dating S and M was married to him before. Geez... no wonder I sucked so bad at algebra... Lol

You actually made me go back and re-read the first post, thinking maybe I'd got it wrong. CURSES!!! :lmao:

yes, that would be my choice because I know it will be emotional... but the trouble is... I wont see any of them in person. I'm in another state and not planning to go in their city any time sooner

Well if that is the case I would claim ignorance on the whole subject. But she would be pissed if you found out you knew but didn't tell her.

It's a lose/lose situation.

So, if you decide you absolutely MUST tell R: "Hey, listen, don't shoot the messenger, because it's not like I had anything to do with this, BUT…"

But, yeah, I still wouldn't mention it to her unless it starts to look like it's going to be more than just a few dates.

 

[gsgary]

I can't believe someone would even ask what to do on the Internet

 

[bentcountershaft]

My only concern would be whether you think the unstable one could potentially be a threat (physical or otherwise) to the other. (Sorry not going to confuse myself with the initials) Other than that I would stay out of it.

 

[Designer]

M is the one I'd be MOST concerned about here.

M is needful, prone to depression, and playing with fire. This girl needs help, but I'm not sure you're the one to offer it.

 

[BananaRepublic]

It seems to me that you are the only thing that links these two women. If you mention to either of them that you are now shacked up with, thats the way they might see it, the guy who ruined there lives, as they see it, then you will get blow back. Why say anything

 

[Virgil]

I'd stay out of it, i hate soap operas. You'll just end up pissing everybody off.

 

[JacaRanda]

I can't believe someone would even ask what to do on the Internet

It's possible that she would get more unbiased opinions than anywhere else.

 

[JacaRanda]

The only thing I am confused about is why you decribed them physically.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I think I would have a hard time knowing something and not saying anything, at least I probably couldn't pretend I didn't know who the guy was. And if somehow your friend finds out later from someone else, she might not be happy you knew all the time and never told her.

However things can be said tactfully and in a caring way. If you say something I'd probably try to keep to the facts and not give opinions (like what you think of him).

Maybe starting out just saying that you know who he is might be all you need to say at first. Her response might tell you how much he's told her so far (depending on how long they've been dating). See what she says, then at most maybe keep it to saying you knew he'd gotten married to a friend of yours a few years ago but they've since separated; you don't have to get into the specifics (it's a friend that lives far enough away that you don't see regularly). Anyway I'd let her be the one to ask him about it; she might already know he was married and is separated but not yet divorced.

It's unfortunate it involves the friend who's had past emotional health issues. Seems like both of them will have some of their past to talk about at some point, but you probably don't know yet how much either one has told the other. It might be best to leave it to her to find out more from him and eventually she might ask questions if/when she's ready and wants to know more.

 

[limr]

A lot of people are looking at this from only one point of view: what's easiest or most convenient. But like runnah said - what about the perspective of the people actively involved in the situation? If a friend of mine knew that much about a man that I started dating but didn't tell me, I'd be hurt and pissed. Doesn't she care enough about me to mention that my new boyfriend is still married?

Yes, I do think something needs to be said. A person doesn't just throw their friends into Thunderdome and then continue happy times with the one who makes it out alive. Friendship isn't only about good times, and life gets messy. Friends shouldn't abandon each other for their own convenience until everything isn't messy anymore. That doesn't mean a person should sacrifice everything to solve a friend's problem, but Maria is watching a situation unfold that could get very messy, and if saying something to the people involved could possibly save some heartache, then why should she keep her mouth shut?

Having said that, I do agree that the approach should be a more casual one. I've always hated it when someone sits me down with that serious, "Look, I'm only telling this because I love you and am thinking of your best interests..." kind of intro. It always makes me feel like the person thinks I'm a child or a moron and can't handle hearing a negative opinion about something. It might be intended as a caring thing to do, but it could be interpreted as very patronizing and belittling.

Of course, M being emotionally unstable, she perhaps needs more hand-holding than I would need, but I still don't think that it requires such an elaborate approach. I believe it's appropriate to speak out to both women, but in a very straightforward way. There have been only a few times when I've expressed my negative opinion about someone's boyfriend and it was always quite simple: "I don't know the whole story and I am not making any judgments. I simply think he's not good for you and that you deserve better. You don't seem happy when you talk about him and the relationship might be causing more stress than it's worth. If I'm out of line, I'm sorry, but I don't want to lie and pretend that I see nothing wrong. But know that I'll support you in whatever you choose." And...done. I say my piece and then move on. (Unless they break up. Then I say a lot more )

Of course, there are things we still don't know: Does M know who S is? If she does, the question is moot. And how unstable is she really? Could she cause problems for R at some point if S tries to break it off and M doesn't take it well? Then R needs to know about M.

 

[limr]

I think I would have a hard time knowing something and not saying anything, at least I probably couldn't pretend I didn't know who the guy was. And if somehow your friend finds out later from someone else, she might not be happy you knew all the time and never told her.

However things can be said tactfully and in a caring way. If you say something I'd probably try to keep to the facts and not give opinions (like what you think of him).

Maybe starting out just saying that you know who he is might be all you need to say at first. Her response might tell you how much he's told her so far (depending on how long they've been dating). See what she says, then at most maybe keep it to saying you knew he'd gotten married to a friend of yours a few years ago but they've since separated; you don't have to get into the specifics (it's a friend that lives far enough away that you don't see regularly). Anyway I'd let her be the one to ask him about it; she might already know he was married and is separated but not yet divorced.

It's unfortunate it involves the friend who's had past emotional health issues. Seems like both of them will have some of their past to talk about at some point, but you probably don't know yet how much either one has told the other. It might be best to leave it to her to find out more from him and eventually she might ask questions if/when she's ready and wants to know more.

I agree totally. Keep it simple. At first, limit things to the fact that you know him and try to find out how much she knows about him and his past with R. If she knows everything and is going in with open eyes and clear expectations, then there's nothing left to say. There's no need to express disapproval at this point. And maybe, there will never be need to express disapproval. Maybe R and S just weren't good together. Maybe you didn't like S because he was unhappy, and his relationship with M (or anyone else) will be a different thing. Reserve judgement. Right now, your only concern is making sure that certain cards are on the table to people can at least make informed decisions.

 

[robbins.photo]

A person doesn't just throw their friends into Thunderdome and then continue happy times with the one who makes it out alive.

Umm... whoops.

Having said that, I do agree that the approach should be a more casual one. I've always hated it when someone sits me down with that serious, "Look, I'm only telling this because I love you and am thinking of your best interests..." kind of intro. It always makes me feel like the person thinks I'm a child or a moron and can't handle hearing a negative opinion about something. It might be intended as a caring thing to do, but it could be interpreted as very patronizing and belittling.

So something along the lines of "Hey, did you see that [Insert Sports Team Reference Here] last week? Oh, and did I happen to mention that I think the guy your dating is a two timing jerk from hell?

Of course, M being emotionally unstable, she perhaps needs more hand-holding than I would need, but I still don't think that it requires such an elaborate approach. I believe it's appropriate to speak out to both women, but in a very straightforward way. There have been only a few times when I've expressed my negative opinion about someone's boyfriend and it was always quite simple: "I don't know the whole story and I am not making any judgments. I simply think he's not good for you and that you deserve better. You don't seem happy when you talk about him and the relationship might be causing more stress than it's worth. If I'm out of line, I'm sorry, but I don't want to lie and pretend that I see nothing wrong. But know that I'll support you in whatever you choose." And...done. I say my piece and then move on. (Unless they break up. Then I say a lot more )

I agree, that would probably be the best approach.

Of course, there are things we still don't know: Does M know who S is? If she does, the question is moot. And how unstable is she really? Could she cause problems for R at some point if S tries to break it off and M doesn't take it well? Then R needs to know about M.

Yes. absolutely.. PDQ.