How to beat the pizza photographer?

[astroNikon]

If not I guess we'll need a Ministry of Photography to dictate such things...

Is that Voldemort or Dumbledore ?

 

[unpopular]

My work is valuable. My time is valuable. This is how much I want to charge for my work and time. This is what others are charging for their work and time. Some clients decide to go with me, some decide to go with others. Pretty straight forward if you ask me.

Again. This is "photographer's economics". You charge what you do because the market supports it and you're a good business person who understand what the market can bare. But as I said, this is dependent on many factors, including where you live.

You're not the first photographer who feels this way. It sad, whiny, and biter to be honest.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. But no. You can charge what you can because of the market you're in and your ability to understand that market, not because of your talent. This is not a reflection of your ability, not in the least, but rather a reflection on your competition.

Simply because you value your work at some arbitrary point does not make it "better".

My work is worth more because I value it more. It's unfortunate that you don't see that in your own work, and try to tell others the same about their own work.

I am not a retail photographer and the market for fine art photography, in particular the kind that I do is completely different. I don't give a lot of thought about monetary value, but rather social value and artistic merit.

That said, I'm not going to sell off my entire portfolio for $300 either.

 

[Vtec44]

Again. This is "photographer's economics". You charge what you do because the market supports it and you're a good business person who understand what the market can bare. But as I said, this is dependent on many factors, including where you live.

I shoot weddings all over the country, and have traveled to Europe 3 times to shoot weddings there in the last 2 years. Where you live is another mis-conception because my clients are mostly not where I live. This shows the lack of understanding of the business model.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. But no. You can charge what you can because of the market you're in and your ability to understand that market, not because of your talent. This is not a reflection of your ability, not in the least, but rather a reflection on your competition.

I'm willing to put my work up against anyone, both personal creative work and wedding related work. My talent, or lack of, doesn't really need other photographers approval. They don't pay for my work. My creative work doesn't generate any income, doesn't need marketing, but still creates a lot of buzz. Your statement is overly assumptive because you don't really know my market, my business, and other things I do outside of the realm of wedding photography.

Simply because you value your work at some arbitrary point does not make it "better".

It's how you change your own perception and the effect it has on how you work, and everyone around you. It wasnever meant to be taken literally. When you get to that point, then you'll understand it. You're not at that point, yet if you're taking it literally.

I don't give a lot of thought about monetary value, but rather social value and artistic merit.

Most students and hobbyists share the same mindset, and there's nothing wrong with it. I was in your shoes many years ago when I was in school for my Bachelor of Arts, but grew out of it.

 

[robbins.photo]

I am not a retail photographer and the market for fine art photography, in particular the kind that I do is completely different. I don't give a lot of thought about monetary value, but rather social value and artistic merit.

That said, I'm not going to sell off my entire portfolio for $300 either.

But applying your logic then if we find another photographer in your area who does what we deem to be equal quality work who will sell his entire portfolio for $300, aren't you then obligated to match that price? I mean if not your just a money grubbing jerk who's taking advantage of people, right? Or did I miss the gist of your original argument?

 

[unpopular]

Who said anything about obligation?

I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't charge $15K, only that this figure does not define the value of the work.

And "taking advantage" of people has nothing to do with it.

Look. All I am saying here is that you can't compete with quality alone. That's not the whole equation here, and I think it's a pretty small factor, honestly. There are loads of photographers out there who will charge less than you for whatever reason. Just as one photographer has the right to charge $15K another has the right to charge $300 and the quality of your work has very little to do with which photographer succeeds and which photographer can charge more.

 

[unpopular]

It's how you change your own perception and the effect it has on how you work, and everyone around you.

That's just ridiculous. Why not charge half a million dollars then? Or for that matter five million, or fifty million? I mean, it's like you're saying "charge whatever you want and people will come, and as an added bonus, your work will improve by virtue of what you're charging for it".

It goes beyond "photography economics". It's magical thinking.

But clearly I'm the only one who thinks this way. So I guess I'll just have to excuse myself.

 

[Vtec44]

That's just ridiculous. Why not charge half a million dollars then? Or for that matter five million, or fifty million? I mean, it's like you're saying "charge whatever you want and people will come, and as an added bonus, your work will improve by virtue of what you're charging for it".

It goes beyond "photography economics". It's magical thinking.

But clearly I'm the only one who thinks this way. So I guess I'll just have to excuse myself.

You just don't get it and still taking it literally.

 

[CdTSnap]

This whole thing is ridiculous, anyone who is going to pay $300 for their wedding photography doesn't really care about how well known or how good you are. They are just trying to get the cheapest they can get away with because uncle Bob said he wouldn't bring his 1000D to the wedding.

If you can't compete with someone charging $300 get out of the game. Harsh but true.

 

[robbins.photo]

Who said anything about obligation?

I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't charge $15K, only that this figure does not define the value of the work.

Then what does define it's "value"? To me what defines value is what someone is willing to pay for it. Any other standard would be completely subjective.

It sounds a whole lot to me like you want to hold Vtec and other wedding photographers to one standard, wherein if they charge more than their peers they are somehow being predatory...

Then you turn around and wave the fine art card to excuse yourself from meeting the same standard. Sorry but to me this sounds like a load of bunk.

If Vtec's clients feel he's being predatory then they can show that by going someplace else. Obviously this hasn't been a problem or he'd be out of business by now.

As to why some folks might be willing to pay more for one persons work over another, frankly, doesn't really matter. The guys that are charging 15k have obviously found a way to market themselves that appeals to people willing to pay that much for wedding photos. I would think it might behoove any professional photographer to find out what that entails, even if they don't happen to shoot weddings. You might be able to improve your own business model that way.... rather than sitting around and posting sour grapes.

 

[Vtec44]

The guys that are charging 15k have obviously found a way to market themselves that appeals to people willing to pay that much for wedding photos. I would think it might behoove any professional photographer to find out what that entails, even if they don't happen to shoot weddings.

IMHO, this is how it should be and it has always been for me. I want to learn from people who are out there and making it work for them, so I can further improve my own business.

 

[tirediron]

Speaking of pizzatographers... just saw an ad on Craig's List; Lifetouch is hiring on Vancouver Island. I don't need any prior knowledge or skills, or equipment, they'll train me AND pay me $14/hour!!!!! w00t - where do I sign???

 

[480sparky]

Forget it... with previous experience, you'll be offered $12/hour.

 

[chuasam]

So I've been doing weddings in the 416 for a while, have a solid client base and good word of mouth referals. I use to only do weddings but had to diversify because I was getting undercut by the $300 wedding photographer person.

How do you charge $300 from 8am until 1am? How do you make money are people that desperate in Toronto to work this way. I had to start getting into portrait stuff and now mixing things in with video, selling my own products such as canvas, posters, aerial photography and more.

What do you guys do when responding to your client that says well i was quoted $300. Not to say that the $300 guys service was bad as his portfoliio was pretty good.

I simply say "that's nice" and stick to my quote of $2,700

 

[The_Traveler]

Something just happened that reminded me of this and other threads.
I don't try to sell pictures - for many reasons, not the least of which is that I can't imagine people wanting them.

Last week, I got this email from someone who was rummaging around on my site and found a picture buried in a folder that I used only for pictures I post on sites like this. Blogimages3 | Lost City Diner - Baltimore

The email asked me if I sold my pictures and could I mail them. She wanted this one because her boy friend was from Baltimore, had worked at the restaurant since it opened and really missed the people and the ambiance. She loved the picture and wanted to have it framed and give it to him as a present and his birthday was coming up soon.

So I wrote back, saying that I usually don't sell or ship but, because I liked that place too, I'd print it myself and get it out to her that day by 2 day mail so she'd get it Monday.

I told her I only print on one kind of paper, the Canon Paper Plus Semi-gloss and will print it on 13 x 19 69 lb paper so she can mat and frame at her choice of sizes. My quoted price (just to cover time and actual costs) was $40 for an 8x12 and $50 for 10 x 15 (including mailer, shipping and getting coffee at the Dunkin Donuts next to the post office).

Never heard a word.
Reinforces my decision not to try to sell things that I value more than others do.

 

[JoeW]

Let me offer a few thoughts:

1. As Braineac pointed out, you've got people with full-time jobs who do this (weddings or family portraits) on the side. For them, $300 is found money, it's extra to their regular job. They don't have to pay the rent or put food on the table with their photography. You can NEVER compete against these guys on price--you just can't.

2. For weddings, the reality is that some people will insist on the best of everything (in which case, the "cheapest dress, cheapest cake" argument wins out). Some will cut budgets on everything (look for free space, get food at Costco, no dresses, rental tux, etc.). For our wedding, we decided what few things we wanted to spend money on (our cake, our flowers, our pictures) and skimped on everything else. So there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to marketing weddings.

3. There are a lot of niches out there. I had a relative who shot weddings for $300. He provided no prints and did no edits--just handed over an SD card with jpeg files on it (he shot in jpeg). There is a market for that. Now, his wife had to work full-time so they could pay rent and have health insurance. But yeah, some people really try to make a go of it selling their services for $300 a pop. And there are some who specialize by tying in to a particular resort or location (and become known as "the" photographer for that location). There are others who provide other services (one photographer I know of markets that she does "boudoir" photos of the bride as part of the wedding portraits). Frankly, you're just not going to compete on price with the people who do this on the side and consider $300 a windfall...manna from heaven. You probably are better off charging more and aiming at a higher clientele, shooting fewer weddings but making more from each and getting great word of mouth from prestigious clients.