How to deal with critique

[Overread]

I will say for the record that the number of people who fight back against critique is tiny. Many debate or don't agree, but the number of actually rude - actually offensive people is VERY tiny.

People just remember those 50 page fights a lot more than the dozens of critiques that go well.

 

[imagemaker46]

Everyone has an opinion on a photograph, some people see things more technical than emotional and their opinions are based on what is "wrong" and less about what is "right" It is never easy to put personal feelings aside when judging anything, and that is what a critique is. I've worked as a car show judge for a few decades, but still have cars that are personal favourites, I have to put that a side and look for all the right and wrong in each car. I look at photographs and even if there are minor flaws, I overlook them if the overall image has all the content and impact that makes me just say "That's a great image" I don't need to look for the minor, just to find fault. I know people that judge based purely on technical, and don't agree. I can look at a $500k show car and find things wrong, if it is a pure physical flaw, a little dust in a $50k paint job.

If a photograph generates a positive emotional reaction from me, I can then look at the reasons why. Sometimes it can't be put into words.

I also don't enter photo contests.

 

[DanOstergren]

Something that gets to me a lot is when people base their feedback on past photos of mine. I often get "I don't like this because you've posted better work in the past", with no other explanation. Or often times I get "It just isn't doing it for me".

These sort of responses make me want to break up with this forum, but I just keep coming back. Like herpes. Wait, did I just compare myself to the herp?

 

[Overread]

. Or often times I get "It just isn't doing it for me".

That's why you have to learn to ask.
Yep its not just as simple as saying "why" sometimes you have to learn to ask specific questions. Many people don't learn the skill to express their ideas in a visual medium. It's not their fault, we don't all study nor learn to be artists.

So you have to develop and work on learning a skill on asking - to try your best to ask questions to try and tease the views out of them. Even sometimes just asking makes them sit and write their thoughts out more so - even if its just a few. That's the value, but it won't be handed to you on a plate.

 

[DanOstergren]

. Or often times I get "It just isn't doing it for me".

That's why you have to learn to ask.
Yep its not just as simple as saying "why" sometimes you have to learn to ask specific questions. Many people don't learn the skill to express their ideas in a visual medium. It's not their fault, we don't all study nor learn to be artists.

So you have to develop and work on learning a skill on asking - to try your best to ask questions to try and tease the views out of them. Even sometimes just asking makes them sit and write their thoughts out more so - even if its just a few. That's the value, but it won't be handed to you on a plate.

To be very honest, I would rather ask questions from those who are already giving details to ask about. I notice that these comments are almost 100% from people who have no clue what they are doing with their camera, and to be honest I don't care to hear their reasoning. I used to think everyone's feedback was valid, but I'm making a LOT more progress lately by listening only to those who are actually skilled at the craft and also sincerely want to help me improve, NOT from every Tom, Dick and Harry who are more concerned with letting you know that they don't like your work when they clearly can't create anything decent themselves and have no concern in helping others.

 

[Overread]

That's the advanced lesson - though really its hard to draw a line on who to and who not to listen to. I'd still advise as wide a breadth as possible as to the range of views you listen to.

If you listen only to compliments then even if those offering them are not sycophants then you are still leaving yourself open to a risk. That risk is the fact that you'll repeat yourself. You already said that you dislike when someone says "This isn't like your previous work" yet in the same breath you're saying that you might discount those who might not like your work (though I do note that you make mention that its those who have a shorter way of speaking than those with a longer explanation).

In the end though we all make our choices on who to and who not to listen to. It's a complex area to consider in itself as to who is "Worth" listening to made more complex in that no single person is going to be a universal yes or no.

Though as a measure of attitude I'd consider that most on a forum - even if they don't write very much - are eager to further the understanding of others; or at least to share their views and experiences. I'd wager that the number who post only to disparage others are so tiny as to be insignificant.

 

[sashbar]

Something that gets to me a lot is when people base their feedback on past photos of mine. I often get "I don't like this because you've posted better work in the past", with no

. Or often times I get "It just isn't doing it for me".

That's why you have to learn to ask.
Yep its not just as simple as saying "why" sometimes you have to learn to ask specific questions. Many people don't learn the skill to express their ideas in a visual medium. It's not their fault, we don't all study nor learn to be artists.

So you have to develop and work on learning a skill on asking - to try your best to ask questions to try and tease the views out of them. Even sometimes just asking makes them sit and write their thoughts out more so - even if its just a few. That's the value, but it won't be handed to you on a plate.

To be very honest, I would rather ask questions from those who are already giving details to ask about. I notice that these comments are almost 100% from people who have no clue what they are doing with their camera, and to be honest I don't care to hear their reasoning. I used to think everyone's feedback was valid, but I'm making a LOT more progress lately by listening only to those who are actually skilled at the craft and also sincerely want to help me improve, NOT from every Tom, Dick and Harry who are more concerned with letting you know that they don't like your work when they clearly can't create anything decent themselves and have no concern in helping others.

These sort of responses make me want to break up with this forum, but I just keep coming back. Like herpes. Wait, did I just compare myself to the herp?

Dan, this is a public forum, not a photography school, and the c&c process is more of a conversation where members who give critique when looking at a good photo often learn more in the process than the op. I do agree that listening to less experienced members is often a waste of time ( a friend of mine who is a newspaper reporter says "Do not listen to anyone unless you have seen his work") but such are the rules of the game here. By posting your images you give as much as you take, and in your case you often give more than you take. If it is not what you want then probably you need a more efficient and utilitarian way to improve your impressive skills even further. Single minded earners and career makers always try to be with those who are better, not worse, and this is effective. But bear in mind that people who are weaker photographers will always be grateful for your input. If you do not care about it then you are definitely wasting your time here. I am sure that you understand it, and if you still keep coming back then...

 

[DanOstergren]

That's the advanced lesson - though really its hard to draw a line on who to and who not to listen to. I'd still advise as wide a breadth as possible as to the range of views you listen to.

If you listen only to compliments then even if those offering them are not sycophants then you are still leaving yourself open to a risk. That risk is the fact that you'll repeat yourself. You already said that you dislike when someone says "This isn't like your previous work" yet in the same breath you're saying that you might discount those who might not like your work (though I do note that you make mention that its those who have a shorter way of speaking than those with a longer explanation).

In the end though we all make our choices on who to and who not to listen to. It's a complex area to consider in itself as to who is "Worth" listening to made more complex in that no single person is going to be a universal yes or no.

Though as a measure of attitude I'd consider that most on a forum - even if they don't write very much - are eager to further the understanding of others; or at least to share their views and experiences. I'd wager that the number who post only to disparage others are so tiny as to be insignificant.

I never said I only listen to compliments. What I'm saying is that I listen to those who are clearly intent on helping, who have something to teach. To me, "I don't like it because you've done better" isn't helpful. It's lazy. Lazy feedback is not helpful and never will be.

 

[DanOstergren]

Something that gets to me a lot is when people base their feedback on past photos of mine. I often get "I don't like this because you've posted better work in the past", with no

. Or often times I get "It just isn't doing it for me".

That's why you have to learn to ask.
Yep its not just as simple as saying "why" sometimes you have to learn to ask specific questions. Many people don't learn the skill to express their ideas in a visual medium. It's not their fault, we don't all study nor learn to be artists.

So you have to develop and work on learning a skill on asking - to try your best to ask questions to try and tease the views out of them. Even sometimes just asking makes them sit and write their thoughts out more so - even if its just a few. That's the value, but it won't be handed to you on a plate.

To be very honest, I would rather ask questions from those who are already giving details to ask about. I notice that these comments are almost 100% from people who have no clue what they are doing with their camera, and to be honest I don't care to hear their reasoning. I used to think everyone's feedback was valid, but I'm making a LOT more progress lately by listening only to those who are actually skilled at the craft and also sincerely want to help me improve, NOT from every Tom, Dick and Harry who are more concerned with letting you know that they don't like your work when they clearly can't create anything decent themselves and have no concern in helping others.

These sort of responses make me want to break up with this forum, but I just keep coming back. Like herpes. Wait, did I just compare myself to the herp?

Dan, this is a public forum, not a photography school, and the c&c process is more of a conversation where members who give critique when looking at a good photo often learn more in the process than the op. I do agree that listening to less experienced members is often a waste of time ( a friend of mine who is a newspaper reporter says "Do not listen to anyone unless you have seen his work") but such are the rules of the game here. By posting your images you give as much as you take, and in your case you often give more than you take. If it is not what you want then probably you need a more efficient and utilitarian way to improve your impressive skills even further. Single minded earners and career makers always try to be with those who are better, not worse, and this is effective. But bear in mind that people who are weaker photographers will always be grateful for your input. If you do not care about it then you are definitely wasting your time here. I am sure that you understand it, and if you still keep coming back then...

Well seeya later then.

 

[The_Traveler]

There were a couple of points made earlier than stuck with me.

It is someones difficult to say why a picture is striking or pleasant or interesting; the impact may have nothing at all to do with the technical issues. On the other hand, many people here are still working at getting all the technical issues in sync with their creative efforts and when a picture fails, it is easier, and less embarrassing, for the critic to point out the technical issues which can be corrected.

When I am the poster and someone doesn't like what I did, I try to help them to winkle out why it is they don't like it. That a 'teaching moment.'

 

[imagemaker46]

I don't get many critiques on the images I post, but then I also don't ask for them. So this is a comment that would be directed at others who look for critiques. What I personally find frustrating are the critiques that have nothing to do with the image as a whole, but a nit pick on one element that has no baring one way or the other. Many critiques are coming from less experienced people, but they feel adding their own pointless thoughts is going to help. It is difficult to critique some images without knowing what the limitations were when the image was shot, an example being "That photo would be much better if you moved to the left 5 feet" the problem being that 5 feet to the left, is 4 feet off the cliff.

I offer suggestions based on my skill and experience and understand that without myself standing in the same place, working with the same light, I don't know if the image could be improved. I think this is also where less experienced people offering up critiques can annoy and upset the photographer. I don't have a problem telling someone that a picture is really very average, or should not have kept as it isn't sharp, if the technical side of the image fails drastically, but I will give a reason.

Most of the regulars on here know that I don't back down when I make a statement about an image, most people appreciate what I say based on my experience, just as I read critiques one here by others that are very well stated and helpful. When there is confrontation because of a negative, but useful critique, it usually becomes a personal battle from someone that has their own skill issues. Not every image shot is amazing and people should never expect to be told that. I have learned over the years that I have probably produced more average images than anyone else on the forum, based on the hundreds of thousands os images I have shot.

I've had my images critiqued by my Dad for decades, I didn't always agree, but deep down always knew he was right, and I learned from it. As long as we learn from a critique it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative.

 

[shefjr]

"I don't like this because you've posted better work in the past", with no other explanation. Or often times I get "It just isn't doing it for me".

For me when I read this I feel as though these responses are at least somewhat tied together. I would interpret those responses to mean that I have been able to evoke some sort of emotional response in the past and now it's expected everytime. I know c&c is supposed to be about the photo that is being looked at in that moment but, I could see how someone might come to expect a certain level of work based on past performance. I know for me personally, I have looked at photos that have given me the "WOW!" factor, but don't know how it's created and wouldn't be able to explain why one particular photo doesn't have it. All I could say is it's just not doing it for me. That said, I usually don't respond at all if the photo isn't doing anything for me because I know that isn't helpful and I can't elaborate on that feeling.
Just my two cents FWIW.

 

[pgriz]

Critiquing is a skill set, just as photography requires a skill set. Some do it better than others. It is non-trivial to analyse one's own reaction to an image and to understand why you have that reaction. Then to translate this into something that is meaningful and useful to others, whether the OP or another viewer, again requires communication skills, discernment and judgement. Add to the mix the egos (both of the OP and the critique giver), the motivations, and the politics of the internet, and it's hard sometimes to get a clear reading of what actually is being said.

Personally, the comments I get on my photography have to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. Friendships can influence how a critique is expressed. So can a person's love for, or distaste for a given approach. So can one's experience (or lack of). It also helps to know which posters are masters at which art forms. If Majeed, for instance, critiques one of my landscapes, I will give his ideas and comments quite a bit of weight, as I regard him as a master at that form. Same for Scott, if he critiques a sports or journalistic image.

 

[EIngerson]

Oh look….this threads still here.

 

[shefjr]

Oh look….this threads still here.

I was thinking about your "thick skin comments" which I do agree with. That said, I had a c&c requested (a couple years back) and there were comments directed at the model. "Wow! Too young!" "I better wipe my cookies" "I'm afraid the FBI may knock down the door due to the age of this girl". She is my niece, 18 and she is youthful looking. I don't think that was a case where I needed "thick skin". I took that to be a fun pile from members here. I don't think there was a need to judge the age because that isn't a controllable part of the photograph. For me that ruined the helpful c&c that was given and I have since stopped posting any images up at all.