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If FF really that much better?

So how much "pain and suffering" will you put yourself through before you get the 5d mk iii before you can achieve this 5-10 year? I'd go to the 5d mk iii in an instance if my wife would let me and then all she would have to hear about is what lenses and lights and other gear I need instead of needing everything to improve;)
 
I can take just as bad of photos with my D600 as I was with my D3100.

would I ever go back? not a fat chance.


I have taken a plethora of bad photos with my 1DX No matter what you use there will all ways be rotten apples in the bunch at lest with the 1DX i can shoot enough to have some shots that are excellent out of the bunch. But it helps to have good equipment that can do that other wise my shot may have been missed or was unable to be captured.
 
I don't have a spouse .. or a girlfriend ... but I do have a wallet and I limit what leaves it in large chunks. I'll also normally sell something else in order to help acquire something newer. So there's a balancing act there.
 
I don't have a spouse .. or a girlfriend ... but I do have a wallet and I limit what leaves it in large chunks. I'll also normally sell something else in order to help acquire something newer. So there's a balancing act there.

I understand what you are saying about limits and selling stuff. But I've got an ace in the hole for this time. My 10-year old is really liking photography but really wants to get into dlsr's. So I'm trying to keep my T3i for her to use and so that I can use it as a backup if need be.
 
For all purpose, jack of all trades, I would get an APS-C camera because of the crop factor.

It depends on what kind of photography you are doing.

I had both full frame and APS-C DSLR cameras, because each has advantages over the other.

I also considered a camera's AF module, metering sensor, WB adjustments, external controls, and viewfinder.

I have not read any of the comments except the OP, and the first five posts, so sorry for any repetition. Mmmkay...just referring to what KmH stated. BOTH have advantages over one another, at times. But the one HUGE advantage of FF for me is that the viewfinder image is larger, and in the high-end cameras, the view is crisper, clearer, and often has a bit more eye relief. The actual camera body itself makes some difference; the D600 had a rather average viewfinder image; it's an APS-C body, the D7000, with a bigger sensor. In Nikon, the ROUND eyepiece bodies have ALWAYS been "the good bodies", and they have the better viewfinders--especially if you SHOOT WITH EYEGLASSES ON, annnnnd, you want to actually be able to SEE the outside edges of the frame without needing to scan, or move the eye around. For me, the original D3000 has the sh*++*e$+ viewfinder on any d-slr...in the newest D3300, Nikon has increased the magnification to as high as it has ever been. The D90/D7100 class has a real pentaprism so the finder image is clearer, bettter, than on the baby Nikons. The Canon SL-1 has the crappiest, tiniest finder I have ever seen on a mid-priced camera. The view through a Nikon D1x or D2x, both APS-C is the sharpest, brightest, crispest view EVER in any APS-C body...but those were like $5,000 bodies a decade ago. They spared no expense making those things.

This weekend I shot two 8-gig CF cards (339 frames each) + most of one 4-gig card, 140 frames on my D3x, and 169 frames on my brand-new, never-used-it before Fuji S5 Pro, which was built on the Nikon D200 body and AF system...and which is an APS-C sensor size. Frankly, I hate the quality of the D200's viewfinder, compared against the D2x or D3x. I shot a LOT better with the D3x and its superb, BIG, crisp viewfinder. I struggled more with the D200-class finder, even though the camera had the 200mm f/2 VR-Nikkor on it all day long...

The thing to me is, with the HIGH-end FF bodies, I can literally SEE what the heck my subjects' expressions are, and I an literally SEE BETTER what I am framing up, and what is happening. With the lesser bodies, and I have shot many (Fuji S1 and S2 Pro, Nikon D70, Nikon D40,Canon 20D,Rebel XT) lower-spec'd d-slrs over the past 14 years now, I find that the better the viewfinder, the better I can shoot, especially over full-day shoots, which usually are 745-835 frames for me. For "me" the advantage of better IQ with FF and the Canon 5D than with almost anything else used to be the reason I shot the 5D for six years or so. But with the invention of the new Sony,Toshiba,and Nikon sensors, APS-C has made huge IQ strides. Buuuuut one thing that has not changed, is the highest-end bodies like D3,D3x,5D-III,1Dx have viewfinder systems that are simply better than the lower-tier bodies. It's a matter of degree. Nikon: square eyepiece bodies are the lower-level viewfinders. If it has a round, threaded eyepiece, it's a "pro" oriented viewfinder system. Been that way for decades.

In one kind of camera, you sort of learn to work around what you have and sort of go by feel or 'intuition' as to what you are shooting. In the other clas of camera, there is no limitation; it is simply the best viewfinder system that is on the market, and it makes a difference to me, due to wearing glasses, and wanting to use the eye-level OVF, and not shoot tripod-mounted using the rear LCD screen as a live view type of viewfinder. It's not so much about the sensor size as it is the cameras the sensors are put into, and the price of the body. Compare an old D70 against a D7100...major improvement. Compared a D700 or D800 versus a D3x or a D4, and there's also an improvement on the viewfinder image quality on the top-end versus the old $2699 and $2999 bodies. The 5D-III has a flagship-class viewfinder because, frankly, its direct competition is the Nikon D4's prospective buyer...

**Edit. The title for the absolute sh*++*e&+ viewfinder in any d-slr actually goes to the old Olympus e-420 and e-520 or whatever. OMG...Coke Bottle Bottom class finder. Rubbish.
 
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The actual camera body itself makes some difference; the D600 had a rather average viewfinder image; it's an APS-C body, the D7000, with a bigger sensor.


Umm ... I know I read that alot and especially from Thom Hogan's site.
But having both the d7000 and the d600 I can tell you that the bodies are of different size.
basically .. take a d7000 and expand all dimensions a little bit. Probably the same as the bodies of the d3000 an d5000 bodies .. the same but different .. and d700 and d800 the same but different.

for eye relief I have a Hoodman Hoodeye, f/Nikon DSLR's with Square Eyepieces HEYEN22S -- not that it's better .. just easier on the eye socket and my face isn't right against the camera
 
Derrel: I think you may have just answered my question. I've mentioned before- I have TERRIBLE eyes. They don't even make contacts for me, and my depth perception makes me wonder how I even pass a driving test. I only use the evf on my nex when I have to, because two eyes are better than one, so being able to use live view, and have focus peaking is one of the reasons that I ADORE my nex. Using the d7100 was a "struggle" with my vision. Between trying to judge focus with one eye, and then trying to get my eyes to readjust to using two eyes between shots.....anyways, if the evf on FF is really that much better, then in the long run it sounds like it certainly would be worth waiting for in my case.

A friend fold me today that there is a profoto in Denver. I may have to take a day trip to go up there and actually hold a few full frames in hand to decide on a final verdict. The issue with the d7100 I had is that I couldn't reach the back button AF button without taking my fingers off the grip. My finger tips barely reach the curve. I'm not sure if the mkiii will give me the same issue or not.
 
I don't care if you stay on the stage. JUST STAY OFF MY LAWN! Lol Ok, sweet. Whew.. for a minute or two there thought I was going to lose conciousness. Now, where did I put those eggs.. lol.. Seriously though, really whether or not FF is really worth it is only a question that you can answer. For me, it wouldn't be - yes, there are some advantages to full frame, better low light, wider FOV - which can come in handy in certain situations. But you won't always be shooting in those situations. Honestly I think your best bet would be to have DH or someone go out and assemble a collection of images for you, half shot on FF and half shot on APS-C, and see for yourself if you can really tell the difference just by looking a them, I think you'll find that yes, FF does have advantages and yes it can help you get shots that APS-C might struggle with in low light, but really especially if your working with external lighting it's going to be pretty hard to tell the difference in the final product. So really the question I'd ask myself would be, is going to FF really going to make a big enough difference in being able to get the results I want, consistently that it's worth the price difference? For many the answer to this question would be yes - it probably would. For me personally, eh, not so much. Which is why I haven't really looked at going full frame myself and probably won't for quite some time to come.
Sorry to make you so dizzy! Just imagine how I feel. ;-) it's a scary world inside my head. :giggle: While I don't do much of it right now, I have always been absolutely fascinated with nighttime photography. You know, starry landscapes, galaxies. And I think the reason I don't shot much at night now, is because I "can't" I'm never happy with any low light photos I take (noise wise) so I finally just stopped. If anyone wants to email me some ff vs crop tests, I'm happy to take them though!

Edited because those were supposed to be two different thoughts. I know I could to landscapes on a tri pod with my aspc- that's a bedtime issue for me, but I don't take my camera to low light family events because they are noisy.
 

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