"If You Don't Like It, Don't Look!"

[Bitter Jeweler]

Anyone want to discuss the validity of that statement in regards to conflict resolution?

I have come to find it a rather selfish suggestion when two parties disagree.
I feel it's an absurd stance to take when we are discussing public decency, or behavior.
Like the guy on the bus listening to music through headphones so loud everyone around can hear it.
Can we use "if you don't like it, don't listen?"

At a restaurant you glance over and see a guy pick his nose and eat the reward.
There's no laws against it.
It can't be unseen.
But you know...if you don't like it, don't look.

You are mixing in a world of various values and beliefs. No one belief is true for everyone. Who gets to dictate what's right and wrong?

If someone farts on an elevator, everyone is disgusted. But it's a natural process, and EVERYONE farts. It's healthy to pass gas.
Why is it considered so wrong then? Can we say in defense, "if you don't like it, don't smell it?"

When you are in public, amongst people of mixed values and beliefs, how can one apply playground rules?
What happened to intelligence, logic, and for god sake simple consideration for others?

Have we really become that selfish?

Can't we apply that same rule some people hold so dear to things like abortion, or gay marriage?
I mean seriously. If you don't like it, then just don't look!

We don't need to create laws for or against. JUST DON'T LOOK!
Pretty simple, no?

 

[Trever1t]

This should prove interesting if everyone could discuss rationally and maturely but I am in doubt if that is completely possible given the history here. There's a point to don't say something if you ain't got nothing nice to say. There's a difference between my stinky fart and just moving on to the next thread....if you don't believe me ask my wife

There's a big mix of individuals on this site, from various nations, multicultural. People are going to disagree, eh?

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

What side of the fence are you on, Bitter? What do you think?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

There is the same mix of cultures and nations in public places just like this site. This discussion is geared towards people's actions in real life, rather than here. Although, you make a point that there isn't really a difference between the two.

This is a carry over from a locked thread posted earlier today.

 

[Netskimmer]

The problem is that the line between acceptable and unnacceptable is purly and completely subjective. The general guidlines are put in place by ones religion and culture but it can still vary greatly from person to person. So I think the important question is how do we respond when our line differs from someone elses. I always try to look at things from the other person's perspective and understand there reasoning but I also want to stand up for my own beliefs and not be a doormat. It's a slippery slope to be sure.

 

[MTVision]

Anyone want to discuss the validity of that statement in regards to conflict resolution?

I have come to find it a rather selfish suggestion when two parties disagree.
I feel it's an absurd stance to take when we are discussing public decency, or behavior.
Like the guy on the bus listening to music through headphones so loud everyone around can hear it.
Can we use "if you don't like it, don't listen?"

At a restaurant you glance over and see a guy pick his nose and eat the reward.
There's no laws against it.
It can't be unseen.
But you know...if you don't like it, don't look.

You are mixing in a world of various values and beliefs. No one belief is true for everyone. Who gets to dictate what's right and wrong?

If someone farts on an elevator, everyone is disgusted. But it's a natural process, and EVERYONE farts. It's healthy to pass gas.
Why is it considered so wrong then? Can we say in defense, "if you don't like it, don't smell it?"

When you are in public, amongst people of mixed values and beliefs, how can one apply playground rules?
What happened to intelligence, logic, and for god sake simple consideration for others?

Have we really become that selfish?

Can't we apply that same rule some people hold so dear to things like abortion, or gay marriage?
I mean seriously. If you don't like it, then just don't look!

We don't need to create laws for or against. JUST DON'T LOOK!
Pretty simple, no?

Based on the locked thread I stand by what I said. If you don't like seeing mothers breastfeeding their children in public then honestly don't look because in most places in the US you can't do anything about. Its not a selfish suggestion - its all you can do 90% of the time.

I do think women should be discrete and have consideration for others but I don't think they should have to hide in a bathroom stall to feed their children.

And there are laws protecting womens right to public breastfeeding. As of 2011 at least 44 states have laws that specifically allow women to breastfeed in public. Those laws came into effect because not enough women were breastfeeding. In some states (like my state), if a breastfeeding woman is asked to leave or is told she has to cover up or leave she can file a charge of discrimination with the human rights commission or may be bring action for injunctive relief and compensatory and punitive damages and any other appropriate relief in the superiour court on the county in which the violation happened.

People don't agree with or like homosexuality. So should people who fall in love with the same sex go out of their way to hide it from people because they are afraid to offend someone in public?

And my statement (if you don't like it then don't look) could probably go for a lot of things but I was specifically talking about something that is a rightprotected by law (in most places).

 

[Trever1t]

 

[Derrel]

This must be about that breast feeding picture thread from earlier today...that got out of hand almost immediately, with one poster calling anybody who disagreed "ignorant". The degree of sanctimonious indignation in that thread was sickening...made me think of that classic Monty Python sketch about the "upper class twit of the year" competition...

 

[LizardKing]

Probably it's not the best idea to continue with the same argument here, if it caused so many problems in the other post.
It seems to me that Bitter Jeweler is trying to analize the conflict from a more general perspective, and not only applied to the breastfeeding situation.

I believe his question is more than valid and would probably be interesting to talk about it over a couple of beers

I apologize in advance if you find my way of writing complicated... English is not my natural language as you can probably see, so sometimes I tend to write in a more complicated way jajaja

Anyway... With all the different costumes and cultures mixed in today's world, it seems hard not to offend others with our actions or sayings... Maybe sometimes you do it and don't even realize it.
I've always tried to follow the "don't do to others what you don't like they do to you" philosophy (or whatever the english version for this concept is jaja), and works pretty good for me most of the times. Of course this isn't always enough, so what happens when you cross someone elses line or they cross yours?

If someone's crossing your line, you have 2 options: Say something or not. It seems obvious we need to understand that sometimes people won't realize they did something that offended you, so if you think is important enough as to say something, then be nice!

Now, if you've crossed someone's line and they raised their complaint to you, again you have 2 options. Take it nicely and -if possible- do something to revert the situation, or tell them 'if you don't like it, don't look' jajaja

And there's the actual problem, I think. People don't tend to be nice when complaining to others, less when others are complaining about us... And that's where the real problem is, I think.


Anyway, enough for now... jajaja

Regards,
LizardKing

 

[Dominantly]

Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.

If a group perceives something to be perverse or lewd, who is to tell them that their views are not valid?



On a side note, the federal laws are for federal property. Each state mandates it's own legislation, and I would find it very troubling to hear of any law that told a private property owner that they could not control what happens on their property.
For example, if a sign in a cafe says "No Shirt, No shoes, No exposed boobs", then anyone who violates it should be delt with.

 

[MTVision]

Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.

If a group perceives something to be perverse or lewd, who is to tell them that their views are not valid?



On a side note, the federal laws are for federal property. Each state mandates it's own legislation, and I would find it very troubling to hear of any law that told a private property owner that they could not control what happens on their property.
For example, if a sign in a cafe says "No Shirt, No shoes, No exposed boobs", then anyone who violates it should be delt with.

Last time I'll mention this topic but....You should check out the laws in your state. If a cafe owner had that sign in their window they would probably be sued. A cafe/business that is privately owned but operates for the public cannot tell a women she can't breastfeed on their property.

Cal. Civil Code § 43.3 (1997) allows a mother to breastfeed her child in any location, public or private, except the private home or residence of another, where the mother and the child are otherwise authorized to be present. (AB 157)

 

[gsgary]

In the pub where i drink there is a sign on the bar saying breast feeding welcome i think its great

 

[GeorgieGirl]

Bitter, if what you are suggesting is that people ought to be more considerate of the impact of their actions on others; I do think that thinking outside of yourself is a good way to live. By the same token, it would be a better world if people were more tolerant of others minor indiscretions, and in particular look inside first and question why they are so intolerant.

Some situations, like breastfeeding in public, are so benign in the grand scheme of things that its a puposeful move in life to notice the activity, check the box, and move on without giving it too much thought or emmotion. It's not cavalier to suggest don't look, its an alternate way of saying why get all riled up about something as trivial as this.

 

[Compaq]

I believe relevant laws are on the periphery of this discussion. Just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it at all places. This discussion is, the way I've understood it, more about general consideration toward our fellow beings.

Street photography may be allowed, but, imo, there's a line between taking a picture and disturbing people's peace. The same goes for breastfeeding. It's great mothers are allowed by law to do this publicly, but one should use discretion. Cover up things, don't do it at restaurants with people eating at the next table, etc. Suckling sounds may not exactly trigger your apatite. Many places have special "nursing rooms", with comfortable chairs and stuff. I've never been in there, but I've heard Some mothers might feel offended by that, but it's true. Just because it's natural and necessary, doesn't mean it's a wonderful sight to all others.

Just because you're allowed to do stuff, doesn't mean you should practice your rights without discretion.

 

[Jaemie]

Have we really become that selfish?

Perhaps selfishness is the essence of the matter. It seems to drive our desire to have our opinions heard. To want others to understand our perspective. Even advocating for the common good is usually just an exercise in extending our desires. We never argue for the common good when it conflicts with our own interests, do we?

I hope everyone sees how right I am.