I'm struggling to decide on a camera, sensor size, mirrorless or SLR...Think you can help? ;)

[TimmyD11]

Suppose I primarily want to do landscape photography, but since the landscapes I hope to photograph are in wilderness settings there will naturally be wildlife around, and it would be nice to photograph that too...

Seem to remember long telephoto and zoom lenses being CRAZY money...

So, with the exception of how depth of field behaves, can't I basically go longer with a shorter lens on an APS-C camera...and do it much less expensively that way?

 

[Dragster3]

Yes I use a 400mm old Nikon lens, it's a 600mm on my crop and it works great. No auto focus, full manual. Have to use a tripod and a clicker.

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[SCraig]

Suppose I primarily want to do landscape photography, but since the landscapes I hope to photograph are in wilderness settings there will naturally be wildlife around, and it would be nice to photograph that too...

Seem to remember long telephoto and zoom lenses being CRAZY money...

So, with the exception of how depth of field behaves, can't I basically go longer with a shorter lens on an APS-C camera...and do it much less expensively that way?

An APS/C sensor does ***NOT*** increase the focal length of a lens. It doesn't. Engrave that in stone if necessary.

An APS/C sensor is physically SMALLER than a full-frame sensor so it does not cover as much of the frame as a full-frame sensor does. It's nothing more than cropping the image that the lens sees; that's all, no more magnification, no magic, no nothing. You can do the exact same thing in virtually any manipulation software by selecting the crop tool. This is why the APS/C is sometimes referred to as a "Crop Sensor", it crops the view compared to a full frame.

 

[Dragster3]

400mm FF lens on a crop sensor is like a 600mm on a FF. That's what u are viewing in the view finder...

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[TimmyD11]

You two just contradicted yourselves.

OK it crops it.

On the same size print, taken at the same spot, of the same subject, one taken with an APS-C camera and one taken with a full frame camera, the APS-C camera would effectively be "zooming in".

But yeah, I guess that would then be like digital zoom, not optical. Usually the less desirable way to get there, but maybe the APS-C can handle it?

As in FAR FROM digital zoom from a point and shoot camera from 15 years ago.

It would look more like "optical" zoom and be of good quality.

Am I wrong?

 

[Dragster3]

It's no a digital zoom, it just uses less of the lens...smaller footprint, that's all...

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[Dragster3]

DX 600mm is the same as a FF 400, DX 75mm is a FF 100mm. This is just the image on the sensor comparison... So what you see on the viewfinder looks identical.

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[Dragster3]

I botched the numbers...lol DX 400 will look like a FF 400

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[Dragster3]

Dx400 is like a 600...don't drive and text FYI.

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[Derrel]

400mm FF lens on a crop sensor is like a 600mm on a FF. That's what u are viewing in the view finder...

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Not quite....the 400mm lens designed for a FF Nikon but shot on a DX_sensor sized camera behaves,"Sort of like, but not the same exact way" as a 600mm lens does when it is shot on a FF sensor.

The 400 does not "blow out" the background nearly as much as does the 600mm lens. The 400mm does not appear to "compress" space as much as the 600 does.

The 400mm does not magnify things nearly as much as a real 600mm lens does. Instead, the smaller sensor just CROPS OFF the outer part of the 400mm's lens's projected image!

I know...I owned the Nikon 400/3.5 for years, and had a 600mm for a time as well...

 

[TimmyD11]

And how much is a good lens for a full frame camera for taking pictures of grizzly bears at a safe distance going to cost me?

If I compose a nice shot and expose it properly with an APS-C DSLR with a shorter lens on it, aren't I going to get similar results, emotion-wise if perhaps not technically, with a much less expensive lens?

 

[Derrel]

 

[SCraig]

And how much is a good lens for a full frame camera for taking pictures of grizzly bears at a safe distance going to cost me?

If I compose a nice shot and expose it properly with an APS-C DSLR with a shorter lens on it, aren't I going to get similar results, emotion-wise if perhaps not technically, with a much less expensive lens?

Not really. If everything else is equal a shorter focal length will have a greater depth of field so the foreground and background focus will look slightly different.

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to quit micro-analyzing everything. Find a camera you like and can afford and buy it. If you make a mistake it isn't the end of the world, it's just a camera. Regardless of what you buy today in 6 months or a year or two years technology will have left it far behind so if you worry about having the absolute best that suits your situation to a "T" you're never going to find it.

My D7000 was announced in December, 2010 and my D7100 in February, 2013. I still use both of them, they still do what I want from a camera body, so I have no urge to get anything better. I had a D90 that I gave to my sister and a D60 before that but technology reached a point where the features of something new were justifiable. The same will likely happen with my D7xxx bodies (and the D500 is real close!) and when it does I'll get a new one. But until that happens I'm out taking photographs and not fretting about having the absolute best that I can get.

And, yes, all four of them were APS-C bodies. I don't need or want a full-frame body, I'm happy with what I have.

 

[TimmyD11]

Think I will get the 80D until Canon really competes with sensors and has 3 full frame cameras under $2000 like Nikon does.

Or maybe the 77D or t7i, whichever has the newest sensor / processor combo that has the sensor issues at least partially sorted out.

Take advantage of extended zoom range, even if it is artificial.

Buy a wide angle prime or zoom lens.

 

[Gary A.]

Suppose I primarily want to do landscape photography, but since the landscapes I hope to photograph are in wilderness settings there will naturally be wildlife around, and it would be nice to photograph that too...

Seem to remember long telephoto and zoom lenses being CRAZY money...

So, with the exception of how depth of field behaves, can't I basically go longer with a shorter lens on an APS-C camera...and do it much less expensively that way?

An APS/C sensor does ***NOT*** increase the focal length of a lens. It doesn't. Engrave that in stone if necessary.

An APS/C sensor is physically SMALLER than a full-frame sensor so it does not cover as much of the frame as a full-frame sensor does. It's nothing more than cropping the image that the lens sees; that's all, no more magnification, no magic, no nothing. You can do the exact same thing in virtually any manipulation software by selecting the crop tool. This is why the APS/C is sometimes referred to as a "Crop Sensor", it crops the view compared to a full frame.

Generally, unlike cropping after the image is captured, cropping in the camera delivers the full complement of sensor MPs to the image, allowing a larger print or a higher quality print at a smaller size.

When comparing similar images, a FF 50% cropped 36mp file, will have less MP's than an uncropped 24mp APS-C.