Is Honesty gone? Are we just a kiss and coddle forum now?

[cgipson1]

Very well said

Ahhh... another one! Bye!

Thank you for confirming that you're one of those immature types who simply can't be decent when giving criticism...

Pot, meet kettle.

My experience does not line up with that. I came to TPF last October. I spent some time looking at the C&C on others' photos before posting my own. That way, by the time I did post, I knew what to expect, and I ended up being somewhat pleasantly surprised, instead of taken aback.
My photography skills have improved drastically since last October (not that I'm *good* now, but I'm not awful as often, lol)--and that is DIRECTLY attributable to several people on this forum, three I can think of specifically. Of those three, two are the exact sort you are referring to, who can "seem" very harsh and critical. In fact, I admit, I really thought twice about ever posting a photo because of some of the "brutal honesty."
But those two "immature types who simply can't be decent when giving criticism" have been two of the most helpful, encouraging, inspiring people I've had the pleasure to interact with.

There ARE some here who are harsh for the sake of being superior; there are also some on here with personal vendettas and chips on their shoulders. There are some, as has been mentioned, who give out this harsh criticism but then their own work doesn't stand up to the quality they claim.

But there are many--including those who are above mentioned as "immature types"--who have significant talent and are more than willing to spend their time helping those who need it...IF they are willing to work at improving!

Charlie, David and Ken: THANK YOU for taking your time to help ME improve! Your advice has been awesome, your criticisms helpful and your encouragements inspiring. Oh, and your sarcastic wit and sometimes brutal honesty has made me feel right at home! I consider each of you not only "experts" but Friends.

Now, the rest of you...carry on with your bickering.

Sharon... All I can say is :hug::!

 

[Kerbouchard]

I am not very good at sugar coating things, so in general, if I respond to a thread it is fairly direct.

Actually, I think I am probably harsher with 'good but not great' photos than I am with snapshots. For a snapshot, I will either not respond at all or provide one thing that could have made it better. No reason to go more in depth because the poster doesn't have the knowledge necessary to apply all of the concepts that would be needed.

Now for the 'good but not great' or the 'this would be exceptional except...', I usually nit pick and tear them apart. Not because they aren't good photos, but because my photos are generally somewhere in that range and sometimes it is difficult for me to see what I could have done better. That is why I post them for C&C. To get a different perspective and feedback on things that I may have missed.

So, I guess we go to the Golden Rule...I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

 

[bentcountershaft]

So, I guess we go to the Golden Rule...I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

What if someone is a masochist?

 

[rokvi]

I stayed on this forum simply because I saw a few, direct no nonsense critique. That is what Im after. I already know what I like about a photo. Its what my inexperience cant see that I need to be informed about.

 

[manaheim]

What's truly concerning is that you can be "irked" by a picture someone posts...

Whats wrong with being irritated when someone posts an image which is clearly so bad, it just defies description. You know, like some of the ones you post.

Well, I would say that commenting on such a photo then speaks to the profound lack of intelligence on the person doing it.

You know, like you do.

There are a few people here whose self-worth and sense of value is directly proportional to how derogatory they can be when commenting on someone's photos. If they're not tearing someone a new one, they feel as though their value is mitigated. That manifests itself by their inability to simply move on and not comment at all. They can't control the urge. The very idea that they might get upset by someone posting a bad photo is alarming, and there's probably even a clinical name for it.

I've seen plenty of their stuff. Some of it's very good.

Some of it blows...

This confirms it. I'm QUITE certain that you're either a professional troll, or just kinda "not nice". I put more stock in the troll theory.

(I've softened that quite a bit so the mods won't lock the thread... please do read between the lines.)

 

[Kerbouchard]

So, I guess we go to the Golden Rule...I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

What if someone is a masochist?

I don't see how that would apply. Since I am not a member of your secret little club and sub-forum, I assume there is some backstory, but it is not one I am interested in.

I will continue to give harsh critique to the photos that I think the OP has put in enough work to deserve it and is ready to recieve it. For the rest, I will continue to ignore. I am not sure how sexual gratification even comes into this conversation.

 

[o hey tyler]

a professional troll

Whats the pay scale like for that?

 

[pixmedic]

So, I guess we go to the Golden Rule...I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

What if someone is a masochist?

Make it hurt so bad, 'cause it feels SO good when you stop!

 

[manaheim]

a professional troll

Whats the pay scale like for that?

All the free anger your black soul can absorb.

 

[Sw1tchFX]

You know.. it had gotten to where I just ignore certain types of photographers... even though they need the most help!

I ignore them, because I am afraid I will be banned if I am honest.. even if I not rude about it!

Does anyone else feel this way?

If we see really BAD photography.. how ARE we supposed to address that? If we are anywhere near honest... somebody is probably going to get upset?

Are we a teaching forum.. or a kiss and coddle forum?

How do we address somebody else telling a really BAD photographer how great their shots are.. when they AREN'T?

Just curious!!!!

Avoid the critique sections and focus on the gear sections.

 

[bentcountershaft]

So, I guess we go to the Golden Rule...I treat others the way I wish to be treated.

What if someone is a masochist?

I don't see how that would apply. Since I am not a member of your secret little club and sub-forum, I assume there is some backstory, but it is not one I am interested in.

I will continue to give harsh critique to the photos that I think the OP has put in enough work to deserve it and is ready to recieve it. For the rest, I will continue to ignore. I am not sure how sexual gratification even comes into this conversation.

No back story, just a pun on how someone might want to be treated. It was meant to provide humor for everyone, not just the so called secret club. Which is kind of a paradox in that most people that are assumed to be in this secret club are the only ones that don't know about it.

 

[Derrel]

The person who is closest and dearest to me gives me free advice all the time. Some I accept. Some I ignore. And often, the advice I ignore comes and bites me hard on the a$$. Why is the advice mostly good? Because she knows me, my strengths and weaknesses, and is motivated to make me a better person, and because she is insightful and pretty wise.

There is also an acquaintance who we've known for a long, long time. She also dispenses free, copious quantities of advice. Her advice is safely ignored, as she seems to use advice-giving as a form of breathing exercise. Once I realized that her advice can and should be taken as entertainment, it was much easier to deal with it. Part of the problem with her advice, is that it periperally touches on what I/we do but for the most part it is feel-good stuff that does not show any insight into the situation of the advice-receiver.

And then we have the internet, where our images of advice-givers are built up from textual (and occasionally images) postings. Which by their nature, convey maybe 5% of the sublety of human language and communication. Ans since people also tend to build up "personas" on the internet, we can never really be sure if the person we think we are interacting with really has the attributes that they are projecting. Like making maple syrup, you need to filter out the crud that falls in, and then you need to boil it down a lot to extract the goodness.

What we share on the internet is mostly opinion, some good facts, some bad facts, some posturing (occasionally lots of that!), and some samples. What validates an opinion as useful or not? Utility, insight, actionabilility and background. After a while, it becomes clearer which sources give, on the balance, good (or at least better) opinions. As for the rest? The noise/signal ratio is not always favorable, and when it becomes static, you change the channel.

So well-written it deserves a re-post via quote! Pgriz....you must be descended from Aristotle!

 

[Steve5D]

So in that sense, fear of the gurus has made be improve my game.

Well, see, that's the thing. The self-proclaimed "gurus" here... aren't...

well, to be fair..some of the people you might call the biggest a-holes, are also the ones that offer to show the OP how to correct their photos, or how to shoot it properly. not everyone here that carries a big stick is unwilling to help. now, you might equate that to beating someone up, then teaching them how to fight properly. sounds kinda barbaric..but the one that actually does the learning might be appreciative of that knowledge either way.

And, to be fair, there are plenty whose critiques contain nothing but criticism, and nothing remotely resembling help or advice...

 

[Steve5D]

Whats wrong with being irritated when someone posts an image which is clearly so bad, it just defies description. You know, like some of the ones you post.

Well, I would say that commenting on such a photo then speaks to the profound lack of intelligence on the person doing it.

You know, like you do.

There are a few people here whose self-worth and sense of value is directly proportional to how derogatory they can be when commenting on someone's photos. If they're not tearing someone a new one, they feel as though their value is mitigated. That manifests itself by their inability to simply move on and not comment at all. They can't control the urge. The very idea that they might get upset by someone posting a bad photo is alarming, and there's probably even a clinical name for it.

I've seen plenty of their stuff. Some of it's very good.

Some of it blows...

This confirms it. I'm QUITE certain that you're either a professional troll, or just kinda "not nice". I put more stock in the troll theory.

(I've softened that quite a bit so the mods won't lock the thread... please do read between the lines.)

It seems as though you like to pick and choose your "brutal honesty".

I don't care if you think I'm a troll or not.

Speak your mind; if you've got a thought, post it. Man up and say what's on your mind.

You've failed to illustrate how anything I've said is incorrect...

 

[pixmedic]

Well, see, that's the thing. The self-proclaimed "gurus" here... aren't...

well, to be fair..some of the people you might call the biggest a-holes, are also the ones that offer to show the OP how to correct their photos, or how to shoot it properly. not everyone here that carries a big stick is unwilling to help. now, you might equate that to beating someone up, then teaching them how to fight properly. sounds kinda barbaric..but the one that actually does the learning might be appreciative of that knowledge either way.

And, to be fair, there are plenty whose critiques contain nothing but criticism, and nothing remotely resembling help or advice...

I can find no flaw of falsehood in that statement, and I totally agree. but that's what the ignore button is for. :mrgreen: