Is Honesty gone? Are we just a kiss and coddle forum now?

[Robin Usagani]

Most of the time when I do want to post my CC, a few noobs already beat me to it and say how good the photos are . Then I just change my mind. I dont want to be that one A-hole saying bad things.

 

[amolitor]

C&C should be mixed up a bit. It's a very rare photograph that has nothing good in it, so find it it and mention it. That's teaching too.

Critique should help the critiquer as much as the critiqued.

Also, don't get too cocky, you're just offering an opinion.

More on my dumb blog here, if anyone gives a damn, which you ought not: Photos and Stuff: On Critique

 

[Derrel]

BEING BANNED for posting honest C&C? I don't think I have ever seen that happen. And let's be brutally honest: posting direct, honest C&C is nowhere near as egregious a crime as posting a meme image that you don't hold the copyright to...now that...THAT's a horrible offense. A kiss and coddle forum? Naw...TPF is surely NOT a "kiss and coddle" forum--an example of that would be Nikon Gear or Nikon Cafe...both those places have a genteel, may-I-mop-the-sweat-from-your-brow-oh-kind-sir kind of butler/master B.S. vibe going on. I dunno...there exists a positively huge number of newcomers to photography who know how to operate a camera, know how to make an exposure, and know how to adjust the autofocus point to come back with images that are exposed right, and focused right, but which have, quite often, very weak composition.

A lot of people who are interested in photography are more interested in the technical aspect of image-making, and have very little understanding of the visual arts. These people are usually pretty happy to make a well-exposed picture, that is well-focused. They are seldom concerned about, nor aware of, anything nuanced or sophisticated about photographic image-making, or storytelling, or whatever. Of course, if this is brought up, these folks often get reallllllly bent out of shape. They confuse being able to operate a camera with being a decent photographer. They are almost impossible to get through to on the artistic or visual arts levels. They are easily satisfied with TECHNICAL ADEQUACY...their friend and family often compliment them on their "good pitchers!". The worst of these people mistake almost ALL suggestions and ANY even slightly-negative C&C as "attacks" and "mean comments". These people often want nothing more than accolades and "Atta boy!" comments and "Great shot!" comments. Watch American Idol for a good corollary..."singers" who have little mastery over singing---an ages-old art. When these newbie singers are told their craft needs work, they freak out.

 

[Robin Usagani]

do what I do.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/292964-little-feedback.html

 

[cgipson1]

Most of the time when I do want to post my CC, a few noobs already beat me to it and say how good the photos are . Then I just change my mind. I dont want to be that one A-hole saying bad things.

Exactly!! And HOW is that going to help the OP in question (the one with the bad photos?)! And how is that going to help the people who consider that bad work to be "good"???

 

[cgipson1]

BEING BANNED for posting honest C&C? I don't think I have ever seen that happen. And let's be brutally honest: posting direct, honest C&C is nowhere near as egregious a crime as posting a meme image that you don't hold the copyright to...now that...THAT's a horrible offense. A kiss and coddle forum? Naw...TPF is surely NOT a "kiss and coddle" forum--an example of that would be Nikon Gear or Nikon Cafe...both those places have a genteel, may-I-mop-the-sweat-from-your-brow-oh-kind-sir kind of butler/master B.S. vibe going on. I dunno...there exists a positively huge number of newcomers to photography who know how to operate a camera, know how to make an exposure, and know how to adjust the autofocus point to come back with images that are exposed right, and focused right, but which have, quite often, very weak composition.

A lot of people who are interested in photography are more interested in the technical aspect of image-making, and have very little understanding of the visual arts. These people are usually pretty happy to make a well-exposed picture, that is well-focused. They are seldom concerned about, nor aware of, anything nuanced or sophisticated about photographic image-making, or storytelling, or whatever. Of course, if this is brought up, these folks often get reallllllly bent out of shape. They confuse being able to operate a camera with being a decent photographer. They are almost impossible to get through to on the artistic or visual arts levels. They are easily satisfied with TECHNICAL ADEQUACY...their friend and family often compliment them on their "good pitchers!". The worst of these people mistake almost ALL suggestions and ANY even slightly-negative C&C as "attacks" and "mean comments". These people often want nothing more than accolades and "Atta boy!" comments and "Great shot!" comments. Watch American Idol for a good corollary..."singers" who have little mastery over singing---an ages-old art. When these newbie singers are told their craft needs work, they freak out.

Well said!

 

[cgipson1]

do what I do.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/292964-little-feedback.html

Again.. how is that going to help the OP? Saying "Cute Subjects, BUT.... " would be a much better choice, IMO!

 

[Robin Usagani]

do what I do.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/292964-little-feedback.html

Again.. how is that going to help the OP? Saying "Cute Subjects, BUT.... " would be a much better choice, IMO!

it wont hahaha.

 

[Bynx]

There are a few photo forums that are about to close down because members are leaving because of apathy towards photos being submitted. Here the problem seems to be that what gets said isnt all sugar sweet and lovey dovey. I like saying things like Excellent, Well Done, or Fantastic. But that only happens when it is. If its really bad, then it irks me enough to speak back. I dont speak from a professional point of view, but from someone with two eyes, and a brain that has come to the conclusion that something needs to be said. Sometimes it can come across as being harsh or rude but thats just how I type.

 

[Overread]

Giving critique is not simply a case of knowing the problems and how to correct them; its a skill in itself, just like teaching or any other form of communication. It becomes even more important online because some of the rules change.

For a start you've lost all inflection of voice and body language. Quips and jokes that you might use in person can fall flat online because you've no smile or chuckle to further communicate the jovial nature. As such words can feel far more bare bones and that can feel even more harsh if the posts a person gets in reply to their photos are fully critical.

There is also a training of new people to getting critique, they've got to learn how to receive it and how to understand what is being said as well as who is worth listening to and who is best thanked for their time, but probably hasn't got as much of a clue.


My method is to first start with what I see going wrong; not forgetting that a new person does not just need me to tell them what is wrong, but what possible methods can be used to correct those problems. In addition to that if there are problems that I can't suggest a correction for I generally say that, its not weakness to say that you don't know the answer and it means that you don't look like you're hiding things.
After that I also remember that new people often don't know what they've done right or they might not realise it; either way I do my best to also go through and point out what went right with the photo. Sometimes this might be a lot sometimes it might not be much - but I feel its important. Some people tend to feel that this is somehow "coddling" people - I tend to feel that its just part of giving a balanced form of critique. Also I feel that its important to remember that, online, everyone is fully equal. You don't start off above or below you start off on the same level, so I try to show a level of respect to others as well. I'm not talking as a teacher, I'm talking as just another amateur chatting to another so I try to keep to that.

 

[cgipson1]

There are a few photo forums that are about to close down because members are leaving because of apathy towards photos being submitted. Here the problem seems to be that what gets said isnt all sugar sweet and lovey dovey. I like saying things like Excellent, Well Done, or Fantastic. But that only happens when it is. If its really bad, then it irks me enough to speak back. I dont speak from a professional point of view, but from someone with two eyes, and a brain that has come to the conclusion that something needs to be said. Sometimes it can come across as being harsh or rude but thats just how I type.

Understood! It was mentioned earlier how hard it is to communicate by keyboard only... easy to misconstrue meaning and intent! But sometimes hard things still need to be said!

 

[nmoody]

I encourage you all to tell me how it is, surface coating it is not going to help me. As long as the criticism is constructive it is always welcomed no matter how bad it is.

 

[cgipson1]

Giving critique is not simply a case of knowing the problems and how to correct them; its a skill in itself, just like teaching or any other form of communication. It becomes even more important online because some of the rules change.

For a start you've lost all inflection of voice and body language. Quips and jokes that you might use in person can fall flat online because you've no smile or chuckle to further communicate the jovial nature. As such words can feel far more bare bones and that can feel even more harsh if the posts a person gets in reply to their photos are fully critical.

There is also a training of new people to getting critique, they've got to learn how to receive it and how to understand what is being said as well as who is worth listening to and who is best thanked for their time, but probably hasn't got as much of a clue.


My method is to first start with what I see going wrong; not forgetting that a new person does not just need me to tell them what is wrong, but what possible methods can be used to correct those problems. In addition to that if there are problems that I can't suggest a correction for I generally say that, its not weakness to say that you don't know the answer and it means that you don't look like you're hiding things.
After that I also remember that new people often don't know what they've done right or they might not realise it; either way I do my best to also go through and point out what went right with the photo. Sometimes this might be a lot sometimes it might not be much - but I feel its important. Some people tend to feel that this is somehow "coddling" people - I tend to feel that its just part of giving a balanced form of critique. Also I feel that its important to remember that, online, everyone is fully equal. You don't start off above or below you start off on the same level, so I try to show a level of respect to others as well. I'm not talking as a teacher, I'm talking as just another amateur chatting to another so I try to keep to that.

Well put!

 

[tmjjk]

Just my noob two cents.... I know my images need help. I am not posting for a pat on the back or a thumbs up (although that would be nice if deserved). By kissing and coddling, it takes away from any true accomplishments one has made. I appreciate it when I am told how it is. Now, I am not a glutton for punishment, but I want to get better, and to do so I need HONEST feedback.
Recently I have seen some truly awful images posted and watched and waited for the banter to begin, and all that was given was compliments... whatever. Do your thing Charlie!.. Constructive criticism is always welcome to me. Thank you to all of you experienced photographers lending a hand to us newbies trying to get better. I am a mother of six children and work three different jobs, I cannot afford or find the time for photography courses. YOU are my teachers and I appreciate you!!!

 

[cgipson1]

I encourage you all to tell me how it is, surface coating it is not going to help me. As long as the criticism is constructive it is always welcomed no matter how bad it is.

Yes.. but not everyone welcomes that! lol! As mentioned.. many post here expecting what they got from family and facebook ... compliments about how talented they are.