I've been reminded why I ditched Windows

[itznfb]

Nothing you complain about in your post has anything to do with Windows. I mean no offense by this but all your issues are either user error or lack of 3rd party support.

So Microsoft's support of Office is lacking? That makes perfect sense.

Let's pretend Windows 7 is flawless for a moment. So you want to blame everyone but Microsoft for not making it compatible with popular items such as ColorMunki's?

How is it that the ColorMunki works just fun under the brand spanking new OSX 10.6?

If Windows STILL struggles with support for common products and applications... that's a good reason to avoid it. I went down that dead end road with Vista.

I'm typing this from my Windows 7 machine by the way. I really want to like it. I'll give it a month or two and see if I can get things working smoothly. But what's funny is that when I install OSX I don't have to give it days, weeks, or months to figure it out. It just works.

No. Office works just fine with Windows 7. Creative on the other hand has always had driver issues. No matter what platform. That's Creative's fault. Not Windows. ColorMunki v1.1.1 works just fine as well. I've installed it on several client's Windows 7 machines with no issues. Same as the Cisco VPN client. I have v5.0.03 (very old version) and up working on 1000+ Windows 7 machines.

If you want to hate it, then you'll find ways to hate it.

Another interesting difference between the two companies.

Windows 7: $200
OSX 10.6: $29

That $29 for 10.6 is comparable to XP SP3.

So...
OSX 10.6: $29
XP SP3: $0

That's the correct comparison.

LOL, that's funny.

OSX 10.6 is ahead of Windows 7. XP is like OS9.

I'm drawing a comparison... 10.6 isn't a ground new OS. 10.6 is a patch, or a service release. Only Apple makes you pay for such a thing. Am I going to have to pay for Windows 7 SP1? No. I really don't see how you can consider paying for a service pack a benefit when every other OS offers them for free. Even HP-UX and they make you pay for everything.

Going from Windows XP/Vista to Windows 7 is like going to from OS9 to OSX.

 

[Overread]

 

[itznfb]

I know you guys are expecting a Mac vs PC debate but that's not where I'm going. I'm just pointing out the issues stated in the OP are not issues with the operating system.

 

[Overread]

but they are issuse with Windows - microsoft is notoriously bad at dealing with 3rdparty companies. Just consider something as basic as windows driver signing - as long as I have known I have never had an Nvida set of drivers which have had the signing - and Nvidia are harly a small time company. This is because such a service from windows costs so much that Nvidia simply does not pay.

 

[itznfb]

but they are issuse with Windows - microsoft is notoriously bad at dealing with 3rdparty companies. Just consider something as basic as windows driver signing - as long as I have known I have never had an Nvida set of drivers which have had the signing - and Nvidia are harly a small time company. This is because such a service from windows costs so much that Nvidia simply does not pay.

That's 100% not true. Every nvidia driver labeled WHQL is signed and it costs nvidia $250 per OS family (Win 7 is an OS family). $250 is a lot of money to an enterprise organization?

And even if nvidia chose not to go through WHQL testing, that is still nvidia's fault. Not Microsoft's. OSX has the same process and similar costs.

 

[Overread]

hmm they must have changed their policy - I'm sure most of the ones I ahve used (from the Nvidia site) were not signed and I never went for betas either.

 

[JamesMason]

That $29 for 10.6 is comparable to XP SP3.

So...
OSX 10.6: $29
XP SP3: $0

That's the correct comparison.

Whilst indeed correct. OSX actually works. :greenpbl:

 

[itznfb]

That $29 for 10.6 is comparable to XP SP3.

So...
OSX 10.6: $29
XP SP3: $0

That's the correct comparison.

Whilst indeed correct. OSX actually works. :greenpbl:

It works for some. It doesn't work for others. Same as PC based OS's.

Hell, if I could get Photoshop, CNX2 and CounterStrike to work well under linux... the only OS I would touch would be Mint.

 

[KasparP]

I agree with itznfb. If you want to hate it, you'll find a way to hate it.

All of your problems are because of you being a dummy. You realize ALL drivers work for Windows 7. You can run ANY file(programs, drivers, ect) with "capability mode"

That being said, you could get a Creative XP driver and install it for Windows 7...and so on.

 

[MrRamonG]

I'm running vista on my desktop and laptop. I haven't had any issues that I can remember, I'm pretty happy with the performance. I run many different programs simultaneously including some heavy GIS software. As far as photo software, I run Photoshop and Spyder 3, no issues.

 

[jbylake]

But to have a fair comparison, did you take a 4 year old mac and install the newest Mac OS on it, did it work without a problem? As I Remember the latest Snow Lepard only supports intel chips.

Did exactly that when Leopard first came out.... Historically, MAC os x was very diligent with legacy support... much better than Windows. The whole switch from IBM G to Intel chips was a MAJOR architectural change. Comparing legacy hardware support to a MAJOR architectural change that happens once in a blue moon is not a fair comparison.

If you asked the same question just before snow leopard's release, I could say that I have a few machines running the newest MAC os x that are much older than 4 years. Not something that is typical with windows.

Hate to break the news, but "Snow Leopard" was a service pack under the guise of an operating system. Mac doesn't think anyone knows that so, shhhhhh!

I've done about 5 installs of 7 mostly home premium, went off without a hitch. Personally, I will wait about 6 months for 7 to make sure all legacy drivers are done.

Can't use a Mac, because I use a lot of propietary software that just isn't available for a Mac, and never will be, due to the market share. Not worth the port.

Back at you. You just reminded me why I bought a PC, and BTW Mac's are PC's too, personal computers, but that's a secret too.

Personally, other than the issues I have with software, I like MAC's. However I'm reminded why I didn't buy one. I can get one with "close" to the CPU processing power, memory, and all the good stuff, for about twice what I paid for mine. Great Deal Huh?

J.

 

[itznfb]

So, I haven't really looked at the Mac site recently... but is Nehalem really the newest CPU you can get on a Mac? for $2,500. I'm really trying not to bash here but that's pretty retarded. 3 new lines of CPU's have come out since Nehalem.

Edit...
I must be missing something... no triple channel, no 10k+ rpm drives, no ssd, old procs, ancient graphics cards. Where can I build a mac with hardware from 2009?

 

[inTempus]

No. Office works just fine with Windows 7. Creative on the other hand has always had driver issues. No matter what platform. That's Creative's fault. Not Windows. ColorMunki v1.1.1 works just fine as well. I've installed it on several client's Windows 7 machines with no issues. Same as the Cisco VPN client. I have v5.0.03 (very old version) and up working on 1000+ Windows 7 machines.

You say it works fine for you, I just spent the morning on the phone with IT to resolve the issue of Outlook not talking to our Exchange server.

You say your ColorMunki works fine. Good for you. I screwed with mine for an hour last night before it finally worked.

Perhaps you know how to deal with all of the cryptic errors the Cisco VPN client throws while installing, I don't. I'm not in IT nor do I want to be. Some folks, like you, enjoy figuring out why things don't work, I don't. I like to buy something, install it and use it. If I liked to solve puzzles, I'd buy a damn, well, puzzle.

If you want to hate it, then you'll find ways to hate it.

I'll say this a little more slowly this time.

I

want

to

like

it.

I would love to have a new Alienware PC to play Bad Company 2 on with my buddies next year. I was thinking I could jump back over to Windows for a while with my next PC purchase. After my ordeal last night, and after my buddy who is a MCSE, works in IT and loves Windows sat here and told me "it has some kinks in it"... I'm not going to dump a couple grand into another Vista type "kink"... not until I'm damn sure it's going to meet my needs.

I'm drawing a comparison... 10.6 isn't a ground new OS. 10.6 is a patch, or a service release. Only Apple makes you pay for such a thing. Am I going to have to pay for Windows 7 SP1? No. I really don't see how you can consider paying for a service pack a benefit when every other OS offers them for free. Even HP-UX and they make you pay for everything.

Really? You might consider OSX 10.6 a patch, but it's the next evolution of OSX. You don't have to pay for service pack updates? LOL, you mean you bought Vista, it's a turd, so Microsoft spends a couple million in horrible advertising campaigns to convince people it's not as bad as everyone says it is... while they race to get a replacement out the door. After the Vista ordeal, Windows 7 should be a free upgrade - not another $200.

Going from Windows XP/Vista to Windows 7 is like going to from OS9 to OSX.

It looks like a warmed over Vista to me... well, a modest attempt to fix Vista anyway.

 

[itznfb]

Let me just step back and take this at a more serious level. Your issues with specific software and specific configurations again have nothing to do with the operating system. It's the software/configurations you're dealing with. Any given person can run into the same or similar issues on any OS. There are people that have good/bad experiences with each OS.

I personally find Windows much easier to deal with than OSX. Any time I've used OSX I run into gray screens of death every time I try to modify something. On a mac mini I had it would gray screen every time I tried to change the background. Right out of the box. It went right back in the box.

Vista was on SP2 before Windows 7 came out. Just like XP was on SP2 when Vista came out.
Vista and 7 are completely different platforms. They were two separate projects from the start. Look up Windows Longhorn (Vista) and Windows Blackcomb (7).

A lot has changed since the beginning of those projects but from my knowledge the intent was for Longhorn to be a desktop OS and Blackcomb to be an Enterprise desktop solution. That's obviously not the way it panned out but I don't have any regrets paying money for Vista. It was a great OS for me and a welcome change from the boring the XP desktop. I also have no issue paying again for 7 since it's a great leap forward in desktop operating systems.

To the point though.. 7 is in no way a fix to Vista. They aren't even related. EDIT forgot to finish my point... Vista release was delayed and 7 release was early... so their release dates were a little closer than they really should have been.

But as I said before.. OSX may work for some, Windows may work for some and Linux may work for some. That's why all 3 are still around.
---------------------------------------------------------

Did you upgrade Vista or did you do a clean install of Windows 7?

 

[inTempus]

Did you upgrade Vista or did you do a clean install of Windows 7?

It wouldn't allow me to upgrade my Vista install. So I had to repartition the hard drive and nuke the previous install. I didn't care, I had nothing on it since upgrading from XP to Vista previously.

That, and while I was waiting for my buddy to get things working I Googled "vista upgrade to windows 7" because he said it was better to just wipe the system and start over.

I found warnings like this:

Don't upgrade to Windows 7 ... clean install instead! | Hardware 2.0 | ZDNet.com

So I figured it would be wise to start fresh.