I've lost again... because I'm not a pro

[runnah]

From time to time something happens that I care about, and I really cared about this.

My last office signs were 5 years on their doors... that means that I will look at these forever... just saying....

Being jaded and cynical takes time and hard work!

 

[pgriz]

When I was in the corporate world, I took part in many meetings that were both "creative" and technical. One learns very quickly that superior ideas and concepts rarely are judged on their merits, but are often hostage to the local politics, ambition, power struggles, and personal rivalries that happen in any organization. It takes a skilled and insightful manager to separate the truly good ideas from the chaff that gets kicked up as part of the process of making decisions. The usual result is that the person or group who are best at marketing themselves (and that includes cutting down and "eliminating" the competition) and know who to influence, are the one(s) who prevail.

In this battle for mind-space, it really pays to know who's really going to be making the decision(s), who are the key influencers, what are the deals that are being made that may or may have nothing to do with the issue at hand, and what kind of criteria are being used to decide among alternatives. As Christina says in her post, "selling" the design is a whole process in itself. It's also worth noting that often the meeting or decision-making process is just window-dressing to give the appearance that the due process has been followed, whereas the true decisions have been taken, and the deals have been struck earlier.

In any "sales" effort, you need to know who the "opposition" is, what their likely tactics will be, what is their strategic advantage, and where are their weaknesses. Then, you need to determine the ground on which the battle will be fought - and the ground chosen should take away the strategic advantage of your opponents, while allowing your forces their maximum effectiveness. And know how solid your support is and who your allies are - people being people, you'd be surprised how often the support is much softer than you would think, and the allies can melt away or even change sides. Of course, that is also true of the opposition.

 

[Designer]

He saw my design that day and told me that we can't use my font because professionals chose that particular font and there is a reason because of they did like that...there is a reason for their color and everything... he was lecturing me about something he has no clue but professional did it and that's enough for him.

It happens. It happens in most organizations, unfortunately. I can't tell you how many times it happened where I worked. I think the main reason I retired early is because I was constantly arguing with people about design methodology, failed projects, lack of basic understanding, and alap the rest. It literally wore me out.

As don't get me started on "design by committee". Hoo! Some of the absolute worst projects came out of that process.

I guess there is simply nothing you can do but keep you head down for now. Sorry about your recent bad experience.

 

[astroNikon]

Also just realize alot of organizations do not value their internal people as much as they should.
I worked for a company once in which we had to design our computer network. It covered multiple floors, such as 25, 24, 18, 7 & 4th floors.

My design has specific requirements in it including fiber and the reasons for it, et all.
They brought in an expert consulting firm that did a different design. They went with a basic design. But their network, from the get go had problems. All the problems I listed (including putting unsheilded cabling next to the main building power up the elevator shaft). In the end, their network ended up being the design I originally designed ... but at a much higher cost because their tried to troubleshoot their design and improve it .. a few iterations later they ended up where I wanted to start.

So .. go figure. Internal talent sometimes is not recognized.
For some reason outside people are considered of a higher talent (in some, not all organizations).

Learn that it is just a job. You get paid whether they take the design or not, and whether it is better or not.

I need to quit and come back as a consultant to get the respect and money i deserve.

You and me both.

I have many stories like that.

Because outside contractor is the *expert* they should know.
Of all the various times this has happened to me management has never mentioned my original designs were right.

 

[pgriz]

Sounds about right. I've been on both sides of this, as part of the group having outside "experts" brought in, and being the consultant. In both cases, the management doesn't hear, or want to hear, what the employees are saying, and are hoping the "outside, unbiased, expert" will help them figure out what they can't seem to get by themselves. In my case as a consultant, I listened carefully to what the people on the ground were saying, figured out where the information bottleneck was (a favourite of the manager was blocking the good information), and gave my "brilliant" analysis with appropriate external references and background, which by no coincidence was pretty much what the internal people were recommending in the first place. For a manager, to surround yourself with "yes-man" (or yes-women, but I haven't seen many of these) is a stupid thing to do in the medium and long-term.

 

[Designer]

For a manager, to surround yourself with "yes-man" (or yes-women, but I haven't seen many of these) is a stupid thing to do in the medium and long-term.

Oh, but it happens! My wife works with a man who doesn't actually do any work at any time, but he invites himself to all the meetings with the supervisors. He will go far.

And you're absolutely correct about the bosses not taking anything from their employees, because if the employees actually had anything, then they would be the bosses.

I used to think that a good boss would take anything he could from the employees, but my opinion of that has changed 180.

 

[vipgraphx]

#1 rule in graphic design or any job that your personal art is for sale or up for use……DO NOT GET ATTACHED! You have to separate yourself from your art work. Regardless if you do
not feel the art work being used is better,,,someone does and that someone makes the decisions. I have been a graphic designer for over 14 years and there are times when a client does not
like my work, work that I put lots of time into but, what can I do. I have to do what they want and if I want to get paid I need to listen better to what they want and not what I want.

Don't sweat it your being paid at your office and you have a job..get it next time, but take the time to listen to what that decision maker is looking for.

cheers!

 

[photoguy99]

This video is only loosely related, and it's quite impolite. But it has excellent advice, and gives a nice window into the world on creatives:

Mike Monteiro | F*ck You, Pay Me | CreativeMornings/SF

 

[lambertpix]

I'm not sure whether this is a factor or not, but I think that sometimes, if someone picks a contractor or vendor to do some work for them, they're implicitly invested in that contractor -- to the extent that they might value work produced by that contractor more-so than work you might do -- even if your work is better.

This isn't so much about which work is better. The guy who hired the contractor automatically feels a need to like that stuff better, in part because it's a reflection of how brilliant they guy was to go out and hire that contractor. I know it makes no sense at all, but the contractor had an unfair advantage just because the decision-maker hired him.

Don't let it get you down, but do make a mental note of the objections raised against your stuff. If there's any merit to them at all, learn something and move on. If not, then chalk the objections up to nonsense and move on anyway.

Sorry to hear about the episode, though -- the circumstances sound really lousy.

 

[Designer]

In our local vicinity there are perhaps hundreds of architects, but it seems that whenever someone wants an architect, they hire somebody from out of town. This is a well-known phenomenon; in order to be considered an expert, you have to be from out of town.

You could have given them a good job, but your office will pay somebody to give them a bad design job, and the person who hired the outsider will not even know the difference.

Reality sucks.

 

[NancyMoranG]

Sorry for your frustration Maria :{
go take some terrific photos and let it go. Actually you should smile every time you go by the signs and remind yourself there's more to life to dwell on.
go fishing!
Nancy

 

[Scatterbrained]

Spend some time reading this website, you'll feel a bit better I promise. Clients From Hell

 

[mmaria]

#1 rule in graphic design or any job that your personal art is for sale or up for use……DO NOT GET ATTACHED! You have to separate yourself from your art work. Regardless if you do
not feel the art work being used is better,,,someone does and that someone makes the decisions. I have been a graphic designer for over 14 years and there are times when a client does not
like my work, work that I put lots of time into but, what can I do. I have to do what they want and if I want to get paid I need to listen better to what they want and not what I want.

Don't sweat it your being paid at your office and you have a job..get it next time, but take the time to listen to what that decision maker is looking for.

let's not make this about "I'm jealous because he decided to go with something else" "My work is better " and such... because it isn't about that. My regular duties involve much things I must do in a certain way even though I personally wouldn't do them like that... so...I'm used to decisions that I personally don't support.

He, the Chief of another department, Z, wasn't client and certainly wasn't in the position to decide by himself. Our boss should make the decision. And our boss didn't even see my design. If he did and after comparing what we both done, he decided to go with them... you certainly wouldn't read this thread, because, well yeah, it happens.

Because we are such an institution, we have regulations/law that we need to follow. Website has to be dark red + dark blue + white. Logo dark blue + gold or bronze. Their gold or bronze is lemon yellow... but I've already said that...

 

[mmaria]

And thank you people for your words! you helped me a lot! :hug:::hug:::hug::

How else would I know about the website Scatterbrained mentioned?

photoguy99 I will watch that video later, it's long.






I'm over it!

I'll just take pictures from now on......

 

[LebronPhoto]

Things like this happen. We need to get up and continue pursuing our dreams. At some point in life, you will find someone who will value your work. You will also get better over that period of time. Don't be discouraged.


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