Just a quick message for the beginners (and pros as well)

[tirediron]

That being said (rant alert!), I think there are quite a few arrogant jerks on this forum (just like everywhere else) who feel that they put themselves in a higher place when they dismantle other people's photos. As noted, a blunt "that doesn't do anything for me" or "it's an OK photo but I've seen it many times" can be very disheartening, no matter your level of knowledge. The truth is, those arrogant comments say more about the "expert" than about the photos. (The most striking thing about these jerks is that they rarely post any images themselves.)

Sorry for the long post. I got carried away and I'm not even sure if I said anything of substance.

While I think that you make some excellent points in your post, I don't entirely agree with this portion. For instance, asks for comments and critique (and note that they are two separate things), on an image which is technically adequate but lacks anything to grab the the respondant's attention, what should he or she say? I think as mentioned earlier in the thread that both of these are valid points. "It doesn't do anything for me" means just that; not that it's a bad photo, but that there's nothing in it that the person responding can find of interest. That should tell the photographer something. Likewise "It's been done before" or "Cliche" means that the person has chosen a subject which has been done many, many time (sunsets come to mind).

It's important to remember that when asking for comment/critique on an image, it's not all going to be sugar and roses. The simple fact is, that if someone posts an image asking for C&C of an image which has technical flaws and lacks (IMO) artistic merit, I'm going to tell him/her that. I generally try and put it politely, but I'm not going to say I like if I don't.

 

[manaheim]

The reference to language is an interesting one when you consider the "It doesn't do anything for me" approach. I have a ton of experience in writing and editing, and I can often tell people "Hey, this doesn't exactly work the way you have it..." but I cannot necessarily tell them the rules of why it didn't work, and oftentimes I cannot even say exactly how I would word it differently- only that it doesn't work.

It would seem to me to be not all that different from our photography scenario. Sometimes the picture just doesn't work to our relatively trained eye, but we lack... something... training... formal experience... just more experience... enough to articulate it to someone else.

This is actually a lot of why I'm on here all the time. My philosophy has always been that if I can do something well, I'm relatively successful, but if I can teach someone else how to do that same something, then I have mastered it. My goal here is always to achieve enough knowledge to learn how to teach someone else... if my answer is "It didn't work but I don't know why", then I consider that a personal failure.

Sorry for the semi-stream of consciousness. This is the first time I have ever articulated this before.

 

[Weaving Wax]

I appreciate all of the people (esp. tirediron) who have taken time to C&C photos that I post. I am genuinely looking for honest opinions so I can get better at what I do. When I was in college, I gave music lessons on the bass, guitar and piano. When my students had questions and asked opinions of the songs they wrote, I would listen and give them an honest critique.

If they genuinely wanted help, I would give it to them and not make them feel that they shouldn't "waste my time" when they should realize that one should probably use the Locrian Mode over that A7b5 chord. And if you didn't know that...you should have read your theory books! Plebian!

I don't come here looking to have smoke blown up my arse. I'm trying to get better and I'm asking for help. Not all of us are born experts, and although it may come very naturally to some, some of us have to work and be taught to be better.

Not every self-taught guitarist can be Jimi Hendrix. Most just end up playing three-chord crap in dump coffee houses. That's why I taught music - so maybe I could help someone get higher than they could have on their own.

My $.02, do what you will with it.

+1.

I think it's kinda selfish and arrogant to not help people because they're "too new". Granted, you cannot read every C&C thread made, but to completely avoid them because someone is too new is stupid.

 

[invisible]

While I think that you make some excellent points in your post, I don't entirely agree with this portion. For instance, asks for comments and critique (and note that they are two separate things), on an image which is technically adequate but lacks anything to grab the the respondant's attention, what should he or she say? I think as mentioned earlier in the thread that both of these are valid points. "It doesn't do anything for me" means just that; not that it's a bad photo, but that there's nothing in it that the person responding can find of interest. That should tell the photographer something. Likewise "It's been done before" or "Cliche" means that the person has chosen a subject which has been done many, many time (sunsets come to mind).

I didn't express myself correctly, my bad. I was actually referring to those people who ONLY post lines like the above, and are NEVER able to salute a good photo. Nothing is good enough for them because, you know, they are better than the rest of us. You get the feeling that they do it only to stir up the pot.

It's important to remember that when asking for comment/critique on an image, it's not all going to be sugar and roses. The simple fact is, that if someone posts an image asking for C&C of an image which has technical flaws and lacks (IMO) artistic merit, I'm going to tell him/her that. I generally try and put it politely, but I'm not going to say I like if I don't.

Absolutely agreed, this is the healthy way to go. Trying to be polite by telling the poster of a bad photo that the photo is good is... well... impolite.

 

[AussieDee]

Oi!

I didn't wanna post but I couldn't help seeing "Doesn't do much for me" part.

I don't like cars... they are boring so I would find it difficult to critique it and just wouldn't bother posting at all.

but I can see how that statement can have two different meanings. I guess it's all in how the OP see's that statement.

I like fence shots. Black and white fences, old ones. It may not do $h!t for someone else's liking and I would prefer not to have someone critique it if they don't care for those shots.

 

[tirediron]

I don't like cars... they are boring so I would find it difficult to critique it and just wouldn't bother posting at all.

That's an interesting point and one with which I disagree. I in fact learn more from critiquing pictures whose subject matter didn't interest me all that much. Why? Because it meant that I had to work harder to understand what made a good or not good picture. I think part of being a photographer is being able to look at images objectively. You'll often see me post something like, "Not to my taste but well done" meaning, "I wouldn't have shot this, and I wouldn't hang it on my wall, but it is a good picture".

I like fence shots. Black and white fences, old ones. It may not do $h!t for someone else's liking and I would prefer not to have someone critique it if they don't care for those shots.

Another Phenceophile! Yayyy!!!

 

[AussieDee]

Another Phenceophile! Yayyy!!!

Do I sense a bit of sarcasm in that? ROFL!!!

 

[tirediron]

Do I sense a bit of sarcasm in that? ROFL!!!

Not at all! I'm a huge Phenceophile! See: http://www.johnsphotography.ca/Fences_screensaver.html

I hope to have a new and improved 'Fences' gallery up in early in the new year (my current one is the victim of interupted website maintenance)

 

[AussieDee]

Not at all! I'm a huge Phenceophile! See: http://www.johnsphotography.ca/Fences_screensaver.html

I hope to have a new and improved 'Fences' gallery up in early in the new year (my current one is the victim of interupted website maintenance)

Ohhh YAY!! :thumbup:

Here's part of my collection (all Arizona) http://www.flickr.com/photos/aussiedee/sets/72157606553100487/
I haven't cleaned up any from Australia yet

 

[BlueEyes01]

I personally appreciate honest critique. Thats how I learn and sometimes I still dont agree with something someone commented but if more than one person comments on the same thing, I make myself take a closer look.

I just wish everyone would quit getting so de"Fence"ive

Baa-dum-bump!
Sorry, couldnt help my self

 

[AussieDee]

I just wish everyone would quit getting so de"Fence"ive

ROFLMAO!!

 

[manaheim]

DIE THREAD, DIE!

 

[chizuck]

me too... there are SOOO many new "first shot CC" threads on here each day, if i viewed them all I would be sitting here forever... I have found too that since dslr's are becoming cheaper, more and more people are buying them, and you get a lot of the same shots... I've found MOST (not all) of the first shot cc threads are all of the same things... flowers, pets, babies, sunsets, then it is inevitable that someone will also post a picture of a waterfall and say "how do I make mine look like this" and they post a picture of a waterfall with a long shutter.... .... and they all tend to just blend together after a while, so i've just stopped posting on them, unless they really wow me for "first shots"

But if people oh here that actually know what there doing don't take some time to help newbies then they never learn a thing. I am not saying anyone should answer everything they read on here by no means. Sites like this are a big help to figure out what your doing and were to get more info. Just my 2cents.

 

[srt86hil]

Just my 2cents.

There's must be about 10 bucks in this thread now

 

[chizuck]

There's must be about 10 bucks in this thread now

LOLZ man vary funny.

chuck