Larger sensor just a luxury?

[Kolia]

So all along "same lens" for EW meant comparing a 50mm DX to a 75mm FX lens ?!?

No wonder this was going nowhere...

 

[Dao]

So all along "same lens" for EW meant comparing a 50mm DX to a 75mm FX lens ?!?

No wonder this was going nowhere...

But I still not sure why EW said FX is just luxury? Use a 50mm f/1.4 lens shot at wide open on a D7000 vs D700. There are differences as far as DoF goes when the subject framing is the same. It is not luxury, it is a tool that get the job done.

It seems like there is not point to continue with the conversation because EW and the rest of the world are talking about different things.

 

[Thunder_o_b]

I have read the first five pages of this thread with interest. I have heard many discussions like this over the years. The one question that I would ask is do the respondents actually own both a high quality crop sensor camera and a full frame camera that can use the same lens for comparison? Or are the writings of others being presented as personal experience?

I own a Canon 50D and a 5DMKII and with my favorite lenses the Sig 150mm macro and the Canon MP-E65, the 5DMKII beats the 50D in all respects except for the greater magnification that you get with the crop factor. Honestly, I can't see how this subject elicited such a long discussion.

But then, maybe I have missed something in all this.

 

[Helen B]

So all along "same lens" for EW meant comparing a 50mm DX to a 75mm FX lens ?!?

No wonder this was going nowhere...

It's quite common to compare lenses with the same field of view when comparing formats.

Honestly, I can't see how this subject elicited such a long discussion.

But then, maybe I have missed something in all this.

It's because EW's reasoning, though basically valid, took some effort to understand, and not everyone was willing to make that effort.

Best,
Helen

PS I own and use a number of formats, from a little Canon S95 to 8x10. That's why I found it relatively easy to understand what EW was trying to say.

 

[mjhoward]

Yea but calling them the 'same lens' is along the same lines of those that say a DX will turn a 50mm lens INTO a 75mm lens... which is simply not true.

 

[Helen B]

Yea but calling them the 'same lens' is along the same lines of those that say a DX will turn a 50mm lens INTO a 75mm lens... which is simply not true.

Well sometimes you have to work out what fits EW's meaning, knowing that he isn't stupid - far from it. He comes across as a fairly bright guy trying to work things out for himself, who knows what he is thinking about but can't always get it into the right words. I have a lot of sympathy for people like that.

 

[Kolia]

Nobody is calling anybody stupid.

From working oversea and ending up acting as an arbiter among people who allegedly speak the same language, I learned early on the value of a proper vocabulary. I had French, Belgian and Swiss engineers about to come to blow on technicalities and I, the French Canadian, had to translate from french to french to french...

Same lens should refer to same focal length and aperture at a minimum. Ideally, the same lens swapped from body to body.

So, the question was ? FF a luxury ?

Considering anybody with a pulse nowadays has a phone with a camera in his pocket, any type of machine that only takes pictures and sometime videos is a luxury...

 

[Helen B]

Kolia, I completely agree with you about the clarity afforded by correct terminology and careful descriptions - which is why I wrote post #102 (link) in an attempt to help. Anyway, we all make unthinking errors now and then, and may need a nudge to get back on track. Is everything you wrote in this thread 100% accurate, for example?

 

[EchoingWhisper]

So all along "same lens" for EW meant comparing a 50mm DX to a 75mm FX lens ?!?

No wonder this was going nowhere...

But I still not sure why EW said FX is just luxury? Use a 50mm f/1.4 lens shot at wide open on a D7000 vs D700. There are differences as far as DoF goes when the subject framing is the same. It is not luxury, it is a tool that get the job done.

It seems like there is not point to continue with the conversation because EW and the rest of the world are talking about different things.

You're still not getting it.

 

[EchoingWhisper]

Everyone is right all along, just that they need to know what I am talking about, because what I'm talking about is not what they're talking about.

 

[EchoingWhisper]

I have read the first five pages of this thread with interest. I have heard many discussions like this over the years. The one question that I would ask is do the respondents actually own both a high quality crop sensor camera and a full frame camera that can use the same lens for comparison? Or are the writings of others being presented as personal experience?

I own a Canon 50D and a 5DMKII and with my favorite lenses the Sig 150mm macro and the Canon MP-E65, the 5DMKII beats the 50D in all respects except for the greater magnification that you get with the crop factor. Honestly, I can't see how this subject elicited such a long discussion.

But then, maybe I have missed something in all this.

Of course, your macro is for a full frame camera. If the lens is made for your 50D, then it would be another case (example 100mm f/2.0 macro).

 

[chuasam]

I have no idea why we are still arguing about the mostly irrelevant facts.
I do own a D300 and a D700, the D700. Like Thunder, I've found the D700 to outperform the D300 in most respects except the apparent magnification with longer lenses.
That being said, a ViewCamera still wins.

 

[EchoingWhisper]

I have no idea why we are still arguing about the mostly irrelevant facts.
I do own a D300 and a D700, the D700. Like Thunder, I've found the D700 to outperform the D300 in most respects except the apparent magnification with longer lenses.
That being said, a ViewCamera still wins.

In what respect other than resolution?

 

[jake337]

I have no idea why we are still arguing about the mostly irrelevant facts.I do own a D300 and a D700, the D700. Like Thunder, I've found the D700 to outperform the D300 in most respects except the apparent magnification with longer lenses. That being said, a ViewCamera still wins.

In what respect other than resolution?

I guess it depends on personal taste. But I would like a wider FOV, at closer distances to subjects, with greater magnification.

 

[EchoingWhisper]

I have no idea why we are still arguing about the mostly irrelevant facts.I do own a D300 and a D700, the D700. Like Thunder, I've found the D700 to outperform the D300 in most respects except the apparent magnification with longer lenses. That being said, a ViewCamera still wins.

In what respect other than resolution?

I guess it depends on personal taste. But I would like a wider FOV, at closer distances to subjects, with greater magnification.

Wider field of view? You could always get the equivalent focal length in smaller formats. Closer distance to subjects? You could always use the equivalent focal length. Greater magnification? This, I don't know. Need to ask Helen B.